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There are different forms of intelligence. Creativity and artistic abilities are excellent indicators of intelligence. But earning a living as an artist is difficult, especially given today's economic issues worldwide (art is oftentimes considered a luxury item). It is also difficult for artists to get their work displayed in galleries and, if it is bought, the gallery takes a substantial portion of the purchase price. In support of artists everywhere, and gathered from speaking to a few experienced artists (which I am not), here are some suggestions to financially benefit from your creativity.

...financially benefiting from your art takes more than just artistic talent


In addition to the basics of just knowing which local art galleries are around where you live, get to know the various styles of galleries. It typically doesn't make much sense trying to get your art shown in a specific gallery if the styles are going to clash. For example, you typically wouldn't want to spend your time or effort getting your work shown in a traditional gallery if your art is primarily modern. So get to know the art that's sold in the galleries. This will help you tailor your personal message as to why your art will fit in well with what the gallery offers.

Galleries typically have a "review board" to decide which artwork will be shown. Artists will usually submit a few pieces of their work (or, if they are not local, galleries will sometimes allow pictures to be sent). Galleries will evaluate your art based on multiple criteria, but primarily it will revolve around the quality of your work, whether your art is a good fit for the gallery, and if your art will compete with any of the other artists in the gallery (e.g., if your art is too similar). Some galleries also require artists to already have a body of work. In order to be selected, sometimes you won't be allowed to have your art displayed within a certain radius of the gallery.

Try to get to know the staff of your local art galleries, and be as friendly as possible. Make sure to get on their mailing lists and get invited to all opening shows. In fact, it's useful to offer to help them by volunteering some of your time. That way, when something is happening, you'll be top-of-mind.

Certainly, you aren't limited to local galleries but, clearly, they are more convenient to make personal connections. You'll find that galleries in some areas are easier to get into than others. (One artist told me that she found it very hard to exhibit in Auckland, New Zealand; however, her art was very welcome in galleries in Wellington, New Zealand - the capital city.) Galleries do search for new artists at art shows and on websites, so it's always a good idea to have your art on a website.

To request to show your art at a particular gallery, write a formal letter expressing your desire to exhibit at their gallery. A personal visit or phone call is also a good idea as a follow-up. Art typically isn't going to sell itself - you have to sell it. How do you sell it? By convincing people that it has value, and personal relationships go a long way to convince people of your value. During your personal visit, you can reinforce messages in your letter, such as the type of collector who would be interested in your art, why they will be interested in it, what is special and unique about your art, and ideas you have on the best ways to sell it. Other points to consider include how many pieces you currently have to sell and how much art you're able to produce in a given timeframe.

If you get turned down, don't miss an important opportunity to find out the reasons why. Be sincere in your desire to understand. Ask questions about the types of values they were looking for that you didn't demonstrate. This will help you better present yourself and your work in the future.

Pricing your Art

There are many different ways to price your art. For example, you could define an "hourly rate" for the time you spent in addition to the cost of the materials (e.g., if you consider your time worth $20/hour and the painting took you 10 hours in total to create, you could use $200 as a starting point for pricing). You should also compare your art with similar pieces and use the pricing of those pieces as a starting point (including your own art that you've previously sold). Don't just look at art specifically comparable to yours, but also at other segments of art. (This will also help you better market your art because you will better understand the values people can derive from what you offer relative to other categories.) You should also consider if you will sell only the original or if you can additionally sell reproductions for a lesser price (i.e., increasing the total revenue by selling many copies).

When pricing your art, understand that all galleries are going to have their own, individual commission structure. Commission rates usually range from 20 - 50% of the purchase price, though you will find 30 - 40% very common. Some galleries also require a "hanging" fee (e.g., $20 per painting) and, as a result, may take less in commission. Though it is possible for an artist to bargain with a gallery on commission, unless you have a particular reputation already, it's unlikely you will be successful. Be prepared to explain why you are pricing your art as you are - some galleries will want to know your objective criteria. You should be able to explain your pricing with facts.

You can find some other useful tips for pricing at Art Prices - Price Your Art Realistically.

Creating Opportunities from Limited Experience

Art students and recent graduates typically have an especially hard time financially benefiting from their art. It's difficult to find jobs in art.

Though art galleries are a useful place to sell your art, they don't hold a monopoly on your distribution possibilities. You can show your art at cafes, restaurants, offices of professionals (e.g., doctors, lawyers, companies). Some building management or other companies might also allow you to manage their art decorations for a rental fee. This is a great opportunity for you to keep showing your newest pieces as you periodically change the art you offer. You might even be able to offer art from friends to give them opportunities as well. Sometimes, it might even be worth it to display your art for free in hopes that the exposure might lead to other opportunities. Additionally, you can offer the professionals or companies a commission should any of your artwork be sold.

Consider starting an email list. Although you will have to be aware of spam laws, which vary by country, sending emails with pictures of your art or links to your website can lead to new opportunities, especially outside of your local area. There are tools to help artists create their own websites (e.g., EBSQ Self Representing Artists). Consider for a moment this idea: if you had an email list in which only 30 people gave you $35/month for which you offered them a $500 - $1,000 piece of art in return, that would provide you opportunities to constantly be working on your art and benefiting financially as you grow your reputation. However, if you do this, you must always be reliable and meet your commitments. It's not enough to be just an artist - you have to be a business person too in some sense.

Networking is a very common business practice to increase sales, and networking to sell art is no different. Meeting many people and getting them to trust you will expand your opportunities to sell art and, sometimes, even get you invited to overseas events and shows. A great place to network is art shows, so try to get involved in as many as possible. Sometimes, for as little as $30/year, you can get access to many group events like club shows, competitions, and speeches. This will further your network to get in touch with the right people.

There are many websites that allow you to put your art on products (e.g., gifts, t-shirts, greeting cards, posters). They take care of all the printing, packaging, shipping, and payments. For the artist, it's as simple as loading your art onto the Web. Examples include redbubble, artist rising, foundmyself, and imagekind.

There are some cities where you can sell your art on the streets. Rules to sell art are localized, so you'll have to do some research. For example, in New York, there is an organization named Artists' Response To Illegal State Tactics (A.R.T.I.S.T.) that has won some lawsuits and has detailed instructions for how to sell art on the streets of New York (including links to getting the required New York Certificate of Authority to Collect Sales Tax). Many cities also have art fairs but you must make sure that you apply on-time. Most all art fairs will have an application process that starts long before the actual art fair, and there are a limited number of spots/booths (e.g., America's oldest art fair, the Chicago Old Town Art Fair, completes their 3-month application and jury process 5 months before the event).

Although the opportunities are typically more limited, the value of your art and your reputation will increase the more you're able to get in the news, radio, or TV. The media are an incestuous bunch and you'll find an increase in media opportunities the more you participate in media.


There are opportunities to make money with your art, and exceptional stories do exist. Rozi Demant is a case-in-point, having produced five sold-out solo exhibitions before reaching the age of 24 and selling one of her pieces for $25,000. The possibilities are there - but financially benefiting from your art takes more than just artistic talent. If you have other ideas to help artists, please let me know so that I can update these suggestions.

Administrator's Note: The preceding article was used for an afternoon discussion [discussion text] and an evening discussion [discussion text] in the Braincrave.com group on May 12, 2010 in Second Life, a free 3D virtual world.


Original posting by bindependent on May 7, 2010 at http://www.braincrave.com/viewblog.php?id=34

Written by permalink    plaintext

The following discussion occurred on Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 2:00 PM/14:00 SLT (PST) in Second Life at Library Art Gallery @ Info Islan, Info Island (17, 27, 34) (http://slurl.com/secondlife/Info%20Island/35/43/34). It is based on the article titled Starving Artists - Making Money from your Creativity. The Braincrave.com group on Second Life is free to join (http://world.secondlife.com/group/bcd74901-06b3-4760-07b3-18e07c160888). Please excuse the typos - it's a very common occurrence in Second Life.

[14:09] BrainCrave OHare: In support of artists everywhere, and gathered from speaking to a few experienced artists, we will discuss suggestions for financially benefiting from your creativity.

FTA: "There are different forms of intelligence. Creativity and artistic abilities are excellent indicators of intelligence. But earning a living as an artist is difficult, especially given today’s economic issues worldwide (art is oftentimes considered a luxury item). It is also difficult for artists to get their work displayed in galleries and, if it is bought, the gallery takes a substantial portion of the purchase price."

Starving Artists - Making Money from your Creativity: http://www.braincrave.com/viewblog.php?id=34


[14:09] Carter Cobalt: hi everyone

[14:10] Leda Carter: *hello too

[14:10] ted Floresby: Welcome

[14:10] Leda Carter: oh ted, you are such a welcoming guy

[14:10] BrainCrave OHare: and, as always, lag is bad - please be patient with posts and use CTRL-up arrow if your posts are eaten

[14:10] BrainCrave OHare: if you'd like to join us, we are currently meeting at http://slurl.com/secondlife/Info%20Island/17/28/34 (though the discussion will be held in group chat - not local)

[14:10] BrainCrave OHare: a very special thank you to AmandaT Tamatzui for her help writing this article, facilitating this discussion, and providing such a lovely location for us to see her RL work while we chat. also a thank you goes out to fiona Bearsfoot who also contributed some of her experiences to this article.

[14:11] BrainCrave OHare: so, what did you all think of the article?

[14:11] Mathilde Vhargon: I have not had a chance to read it yet. : (

[14:13] Galea Yates: hello

[14:13] BrainCrave OHare: ah, well please do right now. amanda had some great advice for artists

[14:13] BrainCrave OHare: welcome galea

[14:13] Galea Yates: ty :)

[14:14] Clarisse Bernheim: Acording to the article about the art, that’s true that if we try to find galleries that can look for a a similar kind of art as what we do we can have more possibilities to be selected to make an echibition, but in some places this is not so easy for artist who starts. In my case, I tried to find this kind of galleries that could be interested in my art, and the majority of them asked for a very different style, after the 2 galleries that I found with asimilar style to mine, they rejected my work because they told me that they ask for people who was older or who had a “name”. In this case, would really worth to look for galleries in another placer or even countries although transport the pieces will cost money??

[14:14] Mathilde Vhargon: okay

[14:14] Mathilde Vhargon: okay

[14:15] Clarisse Bernheim: (eaten by lag) Acording to the article about the art, that’s true that if we try to find galleries that can look for a a similar kind of art as what we do we can have more possibilities to be selected to make an echibition, but in some places this is not so easy for artist who starts. In my case, I tried to find this kind of galleries that could be interested in my art, and the majority of them asked for a very different style, after the 2 galleries that I found with asimilar style to mine, they rejected my work because they told me that they ask for people who was older or who had a “name”. In this case, would really worth to look for galleries in another placer or even countries although transport the pieces will cost money??

[14:15] BrainCrave OHare: clarisse is having problems posting the following:

[14:16] Clarisse Bernheim: Acording to the article about the art, that’s true that if we try to find galleries that can look for a a similar kind of art as what we do we can have more possibilities to be selected to make an echibition, but in some places this is not so easy for artist who starts. In my case, I tried to find this kind of galleries that could be interested in my art, and the majority of them asked for a very different style, after the 2 galleries that I found with asimilar style to mine, they rejected my work because they told me that they ask for people who was older or who had a “name”. In this case, would really worth to look for galleries in another placer or even countries although transport the pieces will cost money??

[14:16] Clarisse Bernheim: Acording to the article about the art, that’s true that if we try to find galleries that can look for a a similar kind of art as what we do we can have more possibilities to be selected to make an echibition, but in some places this is not so easy for artist who starts. In my case, I tried to find this kind of galleries that could be interested in my art, and the majority of them asked for a very different style, after the 2 galleries that I found with asimilar style to mine, they rejected my work because they told me that they ask for people who was older or who had a “name”. In this case, would really worth to look for galleries in another placer or even countries although transport the pieces will cost money??

[14:17] Clarisse Bernheim: thanks brain

[14:17] Clarisse Bernheim: For me the article has been very useful to have an idea of how could I start to look for possibilities, thanks so much

[14:18] BrainCrave OHare: [14:16] AmandaT Tamatzui: You might have been approaching the established galleries... Who only wants stablished artists established in that case. you do need to do a research on the galleries. check on the artists... who they are... are they long time artists? etc.

[14:19] Clarisse Bernheim: mmmmm well, they told me that there must be persons who already had a trayectory, not people so young.

[14:20] AmandaT Tamatzui: Hello everyone

[14:20] Mathilde Vhargon: Yes, I am not an artist in RL, only started doing art in SL

[14:20] AmandaT Tamatzui: WOW! It worked

[14:20] BrainCrave OHare: sigh - damn sl

[14:20] Carter Cobalt: hi there again

[14:20] AmandaT Tamatzui: Soooo....

[14:20] AmandaT Tamatzui: Hi hi again

[14:21] Carter Cobalt: I made it !

[14:21] AmandaT Tamatzui: let's all relax .. since it is just SL.. and let's find out ways to help each other.:)

[14:21] Ernst Maven: same for me I only do art in SL

[14:21] Mathilde Vhargon: : )

[14:21] BrainCrave OHare: hello amanda. thanx again for helping with the article and facilitating here

[14:21] Sasun Steinbeck: Is this discussion more about making money from RL art, or SL art?

[14:21] AmandaT Tamatzui: :)

[14:21] AmandaT Tamatzui: No, Thank you Brain, for getting me here

[14:21] BrainCrave OHare: for those of you who only do art in SL, have you ever considered selling your art in RL?

[14:21] AmandaT Tamatzui: Both

[14:21] BrainCrave OHare: well, actually sasun, it would be both

[14:21] AmandaT Tamatzui: You can make some money both places.. we hope

[14:21] Clarisse Bernheim: so Amanda, you started moving in another places, so maybe I should try to find a place where tipically the kind of art that I do will be asked in more places, maybe.

[14:22] BrainCrave OHare: the goal is to help artists make money

[14:22] AmandaT Tamatzui: Yes Clarrisse...

[14:22] Carter Cobalt: Id like to find out how to just make it available

[14:22] Mathilde Vhargon: Well, my friend and gallery co-owner is a RL artist, and cannot be here, so I am going to share this with him, also

[14:22] BrainCrave OHare: (for those of you who are at the gallery, please do take a moment to look around at amanda's art too when you get a chance)

[14:22] AmandaT Tamatzui: YOu see.. if the galleries around you mainly deal with established artists....

[14:22] Clarisse Bernheim: m so Amanda, you started moving in another places, so maybe I should try to find a place where tipically the kind of art that I do will be asked in more places, maybe.

at the begining can be difficult but in a long time can helps

[14:22] BrainCrave OHare: mathilde, has your friend ever given you any tips that you can share?

[14:23] AmandaT Tamatzui: Then you need to scout around to seeone that has event or holds openings for emerging artists..

[14:24] Clarisse Bernheim:

(eaten by lag) so Amanda, you started moving in another places, so maybe I should try to find a place where the kind of art that I do will be asked in more places, maybe.

at the begining can be difficult but in a long time can helps

[14:24] Mathilde Vhargon: no... He has been doing art as an amateur, and I don't think he has seriously tried to sell it in the past, although it is excellent. I think this is changing for him, as his life circumstances are different now.

[14:24] AmandaT Tamatzui: By the way I will be taking some pics of us here as well

[14:24] Clarisse Bernheim: ops

[14:24] Mathilde Vhargon: Also, he and I are interested in doing all we can in SL

[14:25] BrainCrave OHare: so if your friend owns a gallery mathilde, how does he evaluate art brought in by new artists? do you happen to know?

[14:25] AmandaT Tamatzui: lol

[14:25] AmandaT Tamatzui: I am wodnering how to adress various questions

[14:25] Mathilde Vhargon: Oh, no

[14:25] Mathilde Vhargon: He and I just opened a SL gallery

[14:25] AmandaT Tamatzui: ahhh I see....

[14:25] AmandaT Tamatzui: :)

[14:25] Mathilde Vhargon: which at the moment we are only exhibiting our own work

[14:25] Sasun Steinbeck: I think if you have a goal for making money from art in SL you're going to be on a rather long road to frustration. You need to do it for the love of it... to share your art and join the art community here, and in time the money may come

[14:25] AmandaT Tamatzui: and you are showcasing your own work?

[14:25] Mathilde Vhargon: Sorry if I gave the wrong impression

[14:25] BrainCrave OHare: is there anyone else here who has successfully sold art either in RL or SL?

[14:26] AmandaT Tamatzui: excellent!

[14:26] Mathilde Vhargon: Well, it is not my intention to make lots of money

[14:26] AmandaT Tamatzui: I have sold art both in Rl and SL...

[14:26] BrainCrave OHare: have you tried to sell art sasun but been frustrated by it in SL?

[14:27] Mathilde Vhargon: But it would be nice if the gallery could earn a bit to help pay the tier

[14:27] Sasun Steinbeck: There are a lot of galleries in SL selling art so the "competition" can be seen as high, so if you are doing it to share your art, because it's fun, you're going to be much more satisfied :)

[14:28] AmandaT Tamatzui: I can tell you my story if it helps..?

[14:28] Mathilde Vhargon: and I would like to learn more

[14:28] Clarisse Bernheim: After the difficulties I’m having to show my art, I ask myself: Is really more important the contscts that you have that the art that you do to being accepted or recognized by the institution art when you are too young? Because I think that if nobody knows you (like in my case) is very difficult that the galleries keep confidence on your work.

[14:28] AmandaT Tamatzui: Everyone will have a different experience.. what works for some may not work for others..

[14:28] Sasun Steinbeck: sorry, chat lag galore!

[14:29] AmandaT Tamatzui: all helps.

[14:29] BrainCrave OHare: so how do commissions work for art galleries in SL?

[14:29] AmandaT Tamatzui: Clarrisse...

[14:29] Clarisse Bernheim: (eaten by lag) After the difficulties I’m having to show my art, I ask myself: Is really more important the contscts that you have that the art that you do to being accepted or recognized by the institution art when you are too young? Because I think that if nobody knows you (like in my case) is very difficult that the galleries keep confidence on your work.

[14:29] AmandaT Tamatzui: becasue you never know!

[14:29] AmandaT Tamatzui: :)

[14:29] AmandaT Tamatzui: yoour contacts... your netwokring..

[14:29] Sasun Steinbeck: sorry, chat lag galore!

[14:29] BrainCrave OHare: would love to hear it amanda

[14:29] Ernst Maven: I've sold some of my art here in SL when I sent up my own gallery and then I was discovered by a gallery manager who happened to visit my gallery. She organized my first official SL exhibition at the Mysts of Forzane.

[14:29] Sasun Steinbeck: sorry, chat lag galore!

[14:30] AmandaT Tamatzui: Do we talk abt RL first or SL?

[14:30] BrainCrave OHare: either one amanda

[14:30] AmandaT Tamatzui: Never prejudge who will buy and who wont..

[14:30] BrainCrave OHare: eaten by lag: have you tried to sell art sasun but been frustrated by it in SL?

[14:30] AmandaT Tamatzui: Okay just so wont confuse anyone

[14:30] AmandaT Tamatzui: Wonderful Ernst!

[14:30] Carter Cobalt: Ive sold in RL but not a lot, not looking for Ls here

[14:30] BrainCrave OHare: eaten by lag: so how do commissions work for art galleries in SL?

[14:31] Sasun Steinbeck: one thing I have learned is that a particular gallery may sort of get "tapped out" and it's good to just keep moving your exhibit to new places to get more exposure to new people in SL

[14:31] Sasun Steinbeck: one thing I have learned is that a particular gallery may sort of get "tapped out" and it's good to just keep moving your exhibit to new places to get more exposure to new people in SL

[14:31] AmandaT Tamatzui: galleires

[14:31] AmandaT Tamatzui: 30%

[14:31] Ernst Maven: set*

[14:31] BrainCrave OHare: what do you mean by "tapped out" sasun?

[14:31] Clarisse Bernheim: mmm interesting

[14:32] Ernst Maven: I think I've been very lucky here to have been discovered so easily.

[14:32] AmandaT Tamatzui: You have!

[14:32] AmandaT Tamatzui: :)

[14:32] AmandaT Tamatzui: Galleries rents place and do the work of sending out infos

[14:32] Ernst Maven: LOL

[14:32] AmandaT Tamatzui: I just Offered tp to cai, curator of criss Art Museum

[14:32] AmandaT Tamatzui: and 70% artist

[14:32] Sasun Steinbeck: I think a particular gallery may tend to get a certain set of visitors and after a while sales seem to fizzle out. Moving to a new spot can capture a whole new set of customers that may be repeat customers to that particular spot. So it seems like whenever I move rental locations, sales pick up right away

[14:33] Mathilde Vhargon: That is a good tip, Sasun

[14:33] AmandaT Tamatzui: Sasun, in SL?

[14:33] Sasun Steinbeck: yes sorry, my only experience is SL

[14:33] AmandaT Tamatzui: There is a good art spot in SL

[14:33] BrainCrave OHare: getting back to clarisse's earlier question, don't you think it's almost as important to making contacts with people as having good art?

[14:33] AmandaT Tamatzui: Avalun district

[14:33] AmandaT Tamatzui: heard of it?

[14:33] AmandaT Tamatzui: Clarisse..

[14:33] AmandaT Tamatzui: it is important

[14:34] AmandaT Tamatzui: network

[14:34] AmandaT Tamatzui: network on various platforms

[14:34] Sasun Steinbeck: yes I have a spot there, places like Avalon that attract a lot of traffic and do a good job organizing events are great places to rent

[14:34] AmandaT Tamatzui: liek xing.com,

[14:34] AmandaT Tamatzui: I sold art through getting to know people.. being friends

[14:34] AmandaT Tamatzui: but we need to be active!

[14:34] Mathilde Vhargon: I have heard that there are some places where you can either show or sell your art free. Do you think this is of any value for the artist wanting to put a LM giver to another exhibit area, for example?

[14:34] AmandaT Tamatzui: invest in memberships to art orgs if you have to

[14:35] AmandaT Tamatzui: ryze.com

[14:35] AmandaT Tamatzui: artcad.com

[14:35] AmandaT Tamatzui: is a free siote for shwoing your art

[14:35] AmandaT Tamatzui: as is saatchi-ukgallery

[14:35] Sasun Steinbeck: I know quite a few cases of an SL exhibition resulting in an RL sale. It's a great idea to make glicee prints available in RL and make information available via a notecard giver at your exhibits how someone can order a print. You might be pleasantly surprised with a few orders! All directly as a result of an SL show

[14:36] Ernst Maven: Contacts and patronage are essential if one wants to be known in the SL art world, I believe.

[14:36] BrainCrave OHare: mathailde, can you give some examples please of places where you can show/sell your art for free?

[14:36] AmandaT Tamatzui: Clarisse...

[14:36] AmandaT Tamatzui: get networking online as well...

[14:36] Mathilde Vhargon: I don't know, I have only read that there are some... I have not yet found them.

[14:36] Clarisse Bernheim: very truth

[14:36] BrainCrave OHare: ryze.com is for business networking, correct amanda? not for artists per se?

[14:36] AmandaT Tamatzui: and then a national one

[14:36] AmandaT Tamatzui: but I pasted my art works on there

[14:37] AmandaT Tamatzui: and sold to Greece, US..

[14:37] AmandaT Tamatzui: joining local art gorup is best...

[14:37] AmandaT Tamatzui: So it works

[14:37] AmandaT Tamatzui: as our clients

[14:37] AmandaT Tamatzui: are everyday people too

[14:37] Mathilde Vhargon: But I came to SL for other reasons, and have a network here of friends. I think this helps

[14:37] AmandaT Tamatzui: some buyers do not know to go to art sites

[14:37] BrainCrave OHare: it looks like http://www.artcad.com/ is in french

[14:37] AmandaT Tamatzui: we miss out on the everyday people.. if we stick to art sites

[14:38] Sasun Steinbeck: SL is a great place to meet other artists from all over the world, get inspired, try some new things, experiment. Most SL artists are RL artists as well and have lots of good experience to share

[14:38] AmandaT Tamatzui: Yes

[14:38] AmandaT Tamatzui: artcad

[14:38] AmandaT Tamatzui: is a good place

[14:38] Clarisse Bernheim: wooow this is so goodç

[14:38] AmandaT Tamatzui: can be a professional way to show case your art if you can't elsewhere

[14:38] AmandaT Tamatzui: hI cai!

[14:38] BrainCrave OHare: sasun, that's a great point - you should be making notecards that go along with your art so people can buy it in RL

[14:39] AmandaT Tamatzui: Pls offer cai membership

[14:39] AmandaT Tamatzui: he is invaluable in SL

[14:39] AmandaT Tamatzui: :)

[14:39] AmandaT Tamatzui: but he crashed

[14:39] AmandaT Tamatzui: lol

[14:39] Clarisse Bernheim: yees this is a great idea

[14:39] Sasun Steinbeck: Yes, great idea, put them right into your prims that you sell

[14:40] Clarisse Bernheim: with the details of the SL sale and the RL sale as well

[14:40] AmandaT Tamatzui: I just sold a piece of RL art through this SL exhibition!

[14:40] AmandaT Tamatzui: And a man form Paris

[14:40] BrainCrave OHare: ernst, so you're point is a good one - make lots of friends in SL and then try to sell them your art, right?

[14:40] Sasun Steinbeck: awesome! Congrats :)

[14:40] AmandaT Tamatzui: wants to \look into brining my art into RL {PAris.

[14:40] AmandaT Tamatzui: so people

[14:40] AmandaT Tamatzui: Sl is a powerful tool

[14:40] AmandaT Tamatzui: TY

[14:40] Sasun Steinbeck: absolutely, it's a great way to get exposed to a big audience

[14:40] Carter Cobalt: yes it is!

[14:40] AmandaT Tamatzui: I am looking to get a gallery

[14:41] AmandaT Tamatzui: here in SL...

[14:41] AmandaT Tamatzui: maybe a section to help some of you?

[14:41] AmandaT Tamatzui: WOuld love to see C;larrise;s

[14:41] AmandaT Tamatzui: sell it via SL..

[14:41] AmandaT Tamatzui: don;t be disheartened

[14:41] AmandaT Tamatzui: to the Real world

[14:41] AmandaT Tamatzui: We are in tech age

[14:41] Clarisse Bernheim: Then “ryze.com” works for art as well??

[14:41] AmandaT Tamatzui: :)

[14:41] AmandaT Tamatzui: yes

[14:42] Carter Cobalt: Id love to ask many questions, im just starting

[14:42] AmandaT Tamatzui: I know artists who have sold

[14:42] Sasun Steinbeck: You might consider joining the Art & Artist Network, there are frequent notices for gallery rental space posted there, as well as lots of events to attend for networking

[14:42] AmandaT Tamatzui: but

[14:42] AmandaT Tamatzui: I am no longer active there

[14:42] Ernst Maven: Ina Karura, a Spanish lady is, the owner of Museo Karura, is a very nice gallery manager here in SL who is always willing to help out fellow artists...

[14:42] AmandaT Tamatzui: if you are in New zealand there is thebigidea.com

[14:42] Carter Cobalt: pitty

[14:42] Clarisse Bernheim: woow amanda this is great

[14:42] AmandaT Tamatzui: Clarisse

[14:42] BrainCrave OHare: amanda, it's very inspiring to hear that you had art in SL that led to a sale in RL and then an exhibit in paris - shows the power, but it also requires constant effort to network and show art in SL i'm sure

[14:42] AmandaT Tamatzui: get in touch with the SPanish lady here

[14:42] Sasun Steinbeck: Some gallery owners give out free space

[14:42] Carter Cobalt: Im in canada

[14:42] AmandaT Tamatzui: netowrk

[14:43] AmandaT Tamatzui: she may have contacts iN RL?

[14:43] AmandaT Tamatzui: is the answer

[14:43] AmandaT Tamatzui: Oh yes

[14:43] AmandaT Tamatzui: and I am glad to say

[14:43] AmandaT Tamatzui: a store owner

[14:43] AmandaT Tamatzui: saw my work here

[14:43] BrainCrave OHare: amanda, it would be wonderful if you do get a gallery and if you had room could display art from some braincrave.com members

[14:43] AmandaT Tamatzui: and booked me into another Sl show iN June

[14:43] AmandaT Tamatzui: :)

[14:43] Mathilde Vhargon: I am sorry, i crashed. Would it be possible to get a copy of the chat log I missed after we finish?

[14:43] AmandaT Tamatzui: o\h yes

[14:43] AmandaT Tamatzui: I would love to help out

[14:43] AmandaT Tamatzui: :)

[14:44] AmandaT Tamatzui: but we must be willing to promote it too

[14:44] AmandaT Tamatzui: and I want to say...

[14:44] Clarisse Bernheim: sounds great

[14:44] BrainCrave OHare: to reiterate sasun's point, make sure to check out the Art & Artist Network group in SL if you are interested in selling art

[14:44] AmandaT Tamatzui: soem people think anything is art if someone does it...

[14:44] AmandaT Tamatzui: but I would suggest

[14:44] Sasun Steinbeck: That's an interesting idea. I'm part of another group call the Art Lovers Ring. Great way to promote your SL gallery, by the way. They did a group show just recently and it was very popular

[14:44] AmandaT Tamatzui: we try to keep making our art better

[14:44] AmandaT Tamatzui: :P

[14:44] BrainCrave OHare: thanx for the referral ernst

[14:44] Sasun Steinbeck: A braincrave.com group show would be great

[14:44] AmandaT Tamatzui: art ring

[14:44] AmandaT Tamatzui: awesome

[14:45] AmandaT Tamatzui: yes1

[14:45] AmandaT Tamatzui: :)

[14:45] Ernst Maven: and so is Alanah Wildcat, the gallery manager of Angel Cmpesno d'art, another very nice person

[14:45] AmandaT Tamatzui: of contacts here

[14:45] AmandaT Tamatzui: might be good to get a list down...

[14:45] BrainCrave OHare: yet mathilde, i'll post the log to the article later tonight or tomorrow

[14:45] AmandaT Tamatzui: just by being a part of this gorup

[14:45] Ernst Maven: Compenso*

[14:45] AmandaT Tamatzui: we are networking already

[14:45] Mathilde Vhargon: Thank you, Brain

[14:45] BrainCrave OHare: amanda, thank you so much!

[14:45] Carter Cobalt: thanks

[14:45] AmandaT Tamatzui: I know of artists who paitned for 25 years and never sold a single piece

[14:46] AmandaT Tamatzui: because they did not netwpork

[14:46] AmandaT Tamatzui: YW brain

[14:46] BrainCrave OHare: sasun, do these art galleries in SL advertise through SL magazines? is that how they get people there?

[14:46] Clarisse Bernheim: Oh thanks Sasun

[14:46] Mathilde Vhargon: Well, it seems that if we don't have marketing and networking skills, then we need to get help and advice from others.

[14:46] Sasun Steinbeck: most advertising is via friends networks, their own groups, the Art & Artist Network, and other big groups like Open This End

[14:46] BrainCrave OHare: <-- all for a braincrave.com group show. sadly, i tried to get one going in my first few months in SL but wasn't able to. if anyone wants to take the lead on doing something like that, do contact me

[14:47] AmandaT Tamatzui: I used to dream of being discovered

[14:47] AmandaT Tamatzui: now I knwo I have to market myself

[14:47] AmandaT Tamatzui: :)

[14:47] Sasun Steinbeck: also, getting on my gallery list at http://sasun.info/ArtGalleriesofSL.aspx helps bring traffic in as well

[14:47] Ernst Maven: and then FILTHY FLUNO, an awesome RL artist, owns a whole sim dedicated to the encouragement of art

[14:47] AmandaT Tamatzui: You did, Brain?

[14:47] AmandaT Tamatzui: ah yes

[14:47] Sasun Steinbeck: yes ideally someone that's run a group show before, it's not as easy as you might think :)

[14:47] AmandaT Tamatzui: heard of Filthy

[14:47] AmandaT Tamatzui: :)

[14:47] Clarisse Bernheim: very truth Amanda

[14:47] Ernst Maven: he's a very funny guy too LOL

[14:48] BrainCrave OHare: amanda, to your point about networking, that was one of the points in the article: it's not enough for you to just be a great artist. you almost need to treat this like a business

[14:48] AmandaT Tamatzui: I want to know him!

[14:48] AmandaT Tamatzui: yes true

[14:48] AmandaT Tamatzui: :)

[14:48] AmandaT Tamatzui: being a busienss person is hard for an artist

[14:48] Sasun Steinbeck: yes there are quite a few fantastic Art sims on the grid to explore. Just wonderful places. Artropolis is one of the best, if you haven't been there, go

[14:48] AmandaT Tamatzui: in a review of me in NZARTmonthly

[14:48] AmandaT Tamatzui: I was refered to as a busiensswoman

[14:48] AmandaT Tamatzui: I fetl embarrssed

[14:48] AmandaT Tamatzui: as if I was not an artist

[14:48] AmandaT Tamatzui: but then the reviewer

[14:49] AmandaT Tamatzui: wen to work wioth BBC London

[14:49] Sasun Steinbeck: So true AmandaT, business and art is like oil and water for most artists :)

[14:49] AmandaT Tamatzui: and Asked to buy two pieces of my art later

[14:49] BrainCrave OHare: mathilde, it's a great point you make. many people (not just artists) find it hard to network and market themselves as they weren't trained in it. perhaps it makes sense to take some courses or do some studying online into how to better network and market yourself, even (and especially) if it's not related to art

[14:49] Mathilde Vhargon: In RL, I used to be a musician. It is the same for composers of Fine Art music. Not enough time to create and also market and network, but that is what it takes.

[14:49] AmandaT Tamatzui: and confesssed to me he has been eyeong my art work but could not affors it before

[14:49] Ernst Maven: and LUCK too LOL

[14:50] BrainCrave OHare: i did amanda. sadly, the person who was building it all ran into some personal problems and so i was never able to get it off the ground

[14:50] AmandaT Tamatzui: awwwww.

[14:50] AmandaT Tamatzui: \sad

[14:50] Sasun Steinbeck: Yes I think that would be so helpful. Art Marketing for Dummies. LOL

[14:50] AmandaT Tamatzui: :)

[14:50] AmandaT Tamatzui: Maybe with this group of enthusiast Brain?

[14:50] Clarisse Bernheim: yes lol

[14:50] AmandaT Tamatzui: is there one/

[14:50] AmandaT Tamatzui: lol

[14:50] Mathilde Vhargon: Well, I am guessing (though have yet to test it out) that we can also take a look at what other SL businesses are doing to keep people interested in their creations and coming back on a regular basis.

[14:50] BrainCrave OHare: yes sasun. i was completely unfamiliar with how to run a group show, which is why i was looking for help. sadly, the group was very small at the time and so i didn't have many resources to pull from

[14:50] AmandaT Tamatzui: I know a successful artists

[14:51] AmandaT Tamatzui: who mails out stuff

[14:51] AmandaT Tamatzui: and sells well

[14:51] AmandaT Tamatzui: has her own gallery too

[14:51] AmandaT Tamatzui: I think

[14:51] AmandaT Tamatzui: misixng art with gowns will be good

[14:51] AmandaT Tamatzui: I am wearing a thera Taurog

[14:52] AmandaT Tamatzui: she designs her dresses on a piece of art

[14:52] Mathilde Vhargon: : )

[14:52] Sasun Steinbeck: Brain maybe someone from the group that's done an exhibit in the past can volunteer to set one up. your first one can be a rough learning experience :)

[14:52] AmandaT Tamatzui: You must go take a look and be inspired

[14:52] Mathilde Vhargon: Yes, Fuscia does the same

[14:52] Mathilde Vhargon: It is beautiful

[14:52] BrainCrave OHare: i'm curious - do they teach any business classes when you go to art school? maybe that's a recommendation for people who are still in school - take some business classes as well to learn how to network and market

[14:52] Mathilde Vhargon: and even is giving a class for artists on how to do that

[14:52] AmandaT Tamatzui: we can go on a art journey together

[14:53] AmandaT Tamatzui: she does?

[14:53] BrainCrave OHare: i'm open to anyone who wants to do it sasun :)

[14:53] AmandaT Tamatzui: lol

[14:53] AmandaT Tamatzui: someday

[14:53] AmandaT Tamatzui: I want to attend

[14:53] Clarisse Bernheim: Yes, it’s very complicated to find enought time to develope a consistent artwork when you have to keep lot of time trying to network and sell your art too, and do that well. I find this really difficult....

[14:53] Mathilde Vhargon: I believe she is giving the class at Shamen Gallery

[14:53] AmandaT Tamatzui: teach you how to write contracts etc

[14:53] Carter Cobalt: Im in

[14:53] AmandaT Tamatzui: But I di dnot learn it as I was busy painting.

[14:53] AmandaT Tamatzui: yes they do

[14:53] AmandaT Tamatzui: I did a year long distace class.

[14:53] AmandaT Tamatzui: I stil passed

[14:53] Mathilde Vhargon: yes

[14:53] AmandaT Tamatzui: Mathilde

[14:54] AmandaT Tamatzui: lol

[14:54] AmandaT Tamatzui: would be good if you can write a notecard for us

[14:54] Carter Cobalt: Im self taught.not great at all

[14:54] AmandaT Tamatzui: pls?

[14:54] AmandaT Tamatzui: Carter...

[14:54] BrainCrave OHare: clarisse, anything worth anything takes hard work. being an artists and just doing hard work creating art isn't enough, just as it wouldn't be with any other product or service that you provide

[14:54] Sasun Steinbeck: Mathilde, I'd love to find out more about those classes

[14:54] BrainCrave OHare: what class mathilde?

[14:54] Mathilde Vhargon: Contact Rune Shamen

[14:54] AmandaT Tamatzui: as a self taight artists I sold more than 35 pieces of art...

[14:54] AmandaT Tamatzui: when I said I will go take lessons

[14:54] Clarisse Bernheim: yes, of course Brain

[14:54] Mathilde Vhargon: I got the notice through their Subscribe-o-matic group

[14:54] AmandaT Tamatzui: my clients were worried

[14:55] AmandaT Tamatzui: I will become one of those who paint the same

[14:55] AmandaT Tamatzui: sorry bad typing

[14:55] BrainCrave OHare: mathilde, do you have a link or a notecard that you can give to me so that i can distribute to the group?

[14:55] AmandaT Tamatzui: Cobalt

[14:55] AmandaT Tamatzui: I would love to see your art

[14:55] Mathilde Vhargon: I will look.

[14:55] AmandaT Tamatzui: and maybe critic a bit if you want/

[14:55] AmandaT Tamatzui: lol

[14:55] Carter Cobalt: Id love to share it

[14:55] Mathilde Vhargon: But you can find Shamen Gallery in SL search

[14:56] Carter Cobalt: only have to learn how

[14:56] AmandaT Tamatzui: my email address.... is it safe to post it here/

[14:56] AmandaT Tamatzui: lol

[14:56] Sasun Steinbeck: ok thanks!

[14:56] BrainCrave OHare: as a plug for clarisse, she has amazing art posted on braincrave.com: http://www.braincrave.com/viewblog.php?id=26

[14:56] AmandaT Tamatzui: and get a website of your art if possible people

[14:56] AmandaT Tamatzui: well done Clarisse

[14:56] AmandaT Tamatzui: :)

[14:56] Clarisse Bernheim: ohh thanks so much brain :)

[14:56] AmandaT Tamatzui: use the free oens till you can own your own

[14:56] BrainCrave OHare: (bows)

[14:56] Carter Cobalt: thank you

[14:57] Clarisse Bernheim: (eaten by lag) thanks so much brain :)

[14:57] AmandaT Tamatzui: my web site is.. www.amandatomasoa.com and my mail address is amanda@amandatomasoa.com

[14:57] Sasun Steinbeck: I need to run to my 3:00 thanks for the great discussion :)

[14:57] AmandaT Tamatzui: so if you want to post your works to me

[14:57] AmandaT Tamatzui: welcome

[14:57] AmandaT Tamatzui: not that I am such an expert

[14:57] AmandaT Tamatzui: but if I can help in anyway

[14:58] AmandaT Tamatzui: if I can I will do a wep[age'with your art

[14:58] Ernst Maven: cool thanks Amanda

[14:58] AmandaT Tamatzui: to help a bit

[14:58] AmandaT Tamatzui: so when my visitors visit my site

[14:58] AmandaT Tamatzui: they can see your art too

[14:58] BrainCrave OHare: did anyone who read the article have any personal experiences with some of the ideas presented? i'd be curious who has tried them and if you've had successes or failures

[14:58] BrainCrave OHare: bye sasun, and thanx!

[14:58] AmandaT Tamatzui: I mave fdo a page for other artists art and contact...

[14:58] AmandaT Tamatzui: on my site

[14:58] BrainCrave OHare: thanx amanda for offering the webpage. there are also links in the article for services that will do webpages for you for free

[14:59] AmandaT Tamatzui: and any hope of you getting free advertising on TV?radio?

[14:59] Clarisse Bernheim: ohh thanks Amanda, I've visited your website, and I love your work, the colours how you use them, it's great

[14:59] Mathilde Vhargon: Well, my art is mainly sculpture in SL. I find that a lot of galleries here are set up for flat wall pieces only; and it certainly doesn't show up well in photos, as it is 3D and often scripted to move, etc.

[14:59] BrainCrave OHare: if you haven't gone to amanda's site, i highly recommend it

[14:59] AmandaT Tamatzui: if you can hook up to an artists 's site with visitors it helps

[14:59] AmandaT Tamatzui: Isome people say web sites do not help sell

[14:59] AmandaT Tamatzui: but I have sold thorugh my web site

[14:59] AmandaT Tamatzui: :)

[15:00] AmandaT Tamatzui: I got free advert on the livign channel too

[15:00] AmandaT Tamatzui: for paid tv

[15:00] AmandaT Tamatzui: and sold art there

[15:00] Ernst Maven: good idea!!!

[15:00] AmandaT Tamatzui: not much

[15:00] AmandaT Tamatzui: but 2 -3 was good enough

[15:00] BrainCrave OHare: mathilde, are you saying that galleries typically don't do sculptures? because i know i've been in a few where they've had them

[15:00] AmandaT Tamatzui: I have been on radio, tv etc etc

[15:00] AmandaT Tamatzui: network

[15:00] AmandaT Tamatzui: people

[15:00] AmandaT Tamatzui: I get shy too

[15:00] AmandaT Tamatzui: but it is a must for us to do

[15:00] Carter Cobalt: me too

[15:01] AmandaT Tamatzui: There are manuy International exhibitions n too now...

[15:01] AmandaT Tamatzui: but be careful of scammers

[15:01] Mathilde Vhargon: No... I'm saying that many of the low rental spaces for artists in SL are set up basically to show wall art that is flat.

[15:01] AmandaT Tamatzui: I have been targets

[15:01] Carter Cobalt: in SL?

[15:01] Clarisse Bernheim: (eaten by lag) I’ve visited you website Amanda and I love how you take the colour on your art work, it’s great.

[15:01] Mathilde Vhargon: My pieces are rather large, most of them.

[15:01] AmandaT Tamatzui: RL

[15:01] AmandaT Tamatzui: Ty Clarisse

[15:01] Mathilde Vhargon: So, it is nice for me to have my own place to show them well.

[15:01] AmandaT Tamatzui: I would love to see your work Mathilde

[15:01] AmandaT Tamatzui: exciting

[15:02] AmandaT Tamatzui: :)

[15:02] Clarisse Bernheim: yes, ive gone and I have seen as well

[15:02] BrainCrave OHare: this was one of the key learning points for me as i worked with amanda to create the article - the business skills are very important so, though you might not like the idea of being a business person, if you want to make money from your art, you really have to be

[15:02] Mathilde Vhargon: I have done a few photo nudes, which turned out well.

[15:02] Mathilde Vhargon: Thank you very much, Amanda

[15:02] Mathilde Vhargon: I would love to have any of you come and see my work

[15:02] BrainCrave OHare: what do you mean be care of scammers amanda? what do scammers do in art?

[15:02] Mathilde Vhargon: Our gallery is in my profile picks.

[15:03] Mathilde Vhargon: I will definitely check all of your profile picks and take a look at the work of everyone here.

[15:03] Ernst Maven: sorry I have to go now, the discussion was very interesting and enlightening, thanks

[15:03] AmandaT Tamatzui: for example

[15:03] AmandaT Tamatzui: the scammers\

[15:03] AmandaT Tamatzui: know how vulnerable the artists are....

[15:03] Carter Cobalt: goodbye

[15:03] AmandaT Tamatzui: so they will invite you to be part of fake exhibitions.. boook awards etc

[15:03] Ernst Maven: goodbye

[15:03] AmandaT Tamatzui: and I have been emailed

[15:04] BrainCrave OHare: bye ernst

[15:04] BrainCrave OHare: mathilde, would you post the name of your gallery here please?

[15:04] AmandaT Tamatzui: to have two pieces of my art bought

[15:04] AmandaT Tamatzui: form guy form Nigeria on way to Britan etc]

[15:04] Mathilde Vhargon: Of course. Thank you.

[15:04] AmandaT Tamatzui: they even sent me American express cheques

[15:04] BrainCrave OHare: WOW amanda

[15:04] AmandaT Tamatzui: I was excited

[15:04] AmandaT Tamatzui: but I was smart

[15:04] Mathilde Vhargon: Two Shores Gallery. We are in the SL galleries listing that Sasun has set up, also

[15:04] AmandaT Tamatzui: I went to the bank

[15:04] AmandaT Tamatzui: to cash it up first

[15:04] Mathilde Vhargon: Goodbye, Ernst

[15:04] AmandaT Tamatzui: they bank saw it'

[15:04] AmandaT Tamatzui: felt suspicious

[15:04] AmandaT Tamatzui: and voila they were fake cheques

[15:04] AmandaT Tamatzui: so i was safe

[15:05] AmandaT Tamatzui: their modus operandi is

[15:05] AmandaT Tamatzui: pay you extra

[15:05] AmandaT Tamatzui: then ask for refund later iN reaL CASH

[15:05] AmandaT Tamatzui: i AM NOT STUPID

[15:05] Mathilde Vhargon: Right now we are only exhibiting my work and Duke Sahara's. We hope soon to have a guest artist exhibit area added.

[15:05] AmandaT Tamatzui: we must not be stupid

[15:05] Clarisse Bernheim: wow Amanda, and how did you know that? How can we deifference a fake exhibition? O.o

[15:05] AmandaT Tamatzui: never send art till you get paid for sure

[15:05] AmandaT Tamatzui: :)

[15:05] BrainCrave OHare: that's great advice amanda

[15:05] AmandaT Tamatzui: Okay

[15:05] AmandaT Tamatzui: sicne I have my web site

[15:06] Clarisse Bernheim: ohh

[15:06] AmandaT Tamatzui: and becasue I am getting known among international people...

[15:06] Clarisse Bernheim: I understand

[15:06] AmandaT Tamatzui: I get emails form all over the world

[15:06] AmandaT Tamatzui: inviting me to be part of their fairs...

[15:06] AmandaT Tamatzui: important book awards

[15:06] Mathilde Vhargon: Yes, that is good advice for the sale of anything. Make sure the money is cleared and available before you deliver the goods.

[15:06] AmandaT Tamatzui: tellign me I have been awarded this and that

[15:06] AmandaT Tamatzui: I check

[15:06] Mathilde Vhargon: I wonder if people who sell art on Ebay do well. I have seen a lot there.

[15:06] AmandaT Tamatzui: by googling

[15:06] AmandaT Tamatzui: and see how much stuff there is of them in RL

[15:07] AmandaT Tamatzui: if there is no track record

[15:07] AmandaT Tamatzui: probably a scam

[15:07] Carter Cobalt: I will deal with these problems if they arise

[15:07] BrainCrave OHare: that's another great point mathilde, as ebay has a bunch of protections for sellers. has anyone ever sold any art on ebay? i know i've sold other items on ebay with great success

[15:07] Carter Cobalt: Now Im just happy being here with you all.

[15:08] BrainCrave OHare: what a story amanda

[15:08] AmandaT Tamatzui: Clarisse.. there is an Italian Biennial fair

[15:08] AmandaT Tamatzui: you might want to see if you can get in

[15:08] Clarisse Bernheim: And at the time to make a price for the art, would be better to have a minimal standard based on the prices of the art that we can see outside –that are high in the most cases- ? Or simply choose to do it b hours/effort, for example? Would worth better to start?

[15:08] AmandaT Tamatzui: I was invited...

[15:08] AmandaT Tamatzui: they do have strich panel of judges

[15:08] AmandaT Tamatzui: but if you can go good

[15:09] AmandaT Tamatzui: as an emerging artist

[15:09] AmandaT Tamatzui: it is hard to base on hours

[15:09] AmandaT Tamatzui: pricing is hard..

[15:09] AmandaT Tamatzui: but we do have to do research again

[15:09] Clarisse Bernheim: (Eaten by lag) And at the time to make a price for the art, would be better to have a minimal standard based on the prices of the art that we can see outside –that are high in the most cases- ? Or simply choose to do it b hours/effort, for example? Would worth better to start?

[15:09] BrainCrave OHare: do you have the name of the italian fair amanda?

[15:09] AmandaT Tamatzui: :)see what similar emerging artists's works sells for

[15:09] AmandaT Tamatzui: yes..

[15:09] AmandaT Tamatzui: let me think

[15:09] Carter Cobalt: labours in art can never be priced in hours

[15:09] AmandaT Tamatzui: Florence Biennial...

[15:10] Clarisse Bernheim: Great idea about Ebay!

[15:10] AmandaT Tamatzui: I will have to check my notes in other computer

[15:10] AmandaT Tamatzui: :P

[15:10] AmandaT Tamatzui: There is another one but very high calibre

[15:10] BrainCrave OHare: here are a bunch of art fairs in italy: http://karaart.com/art.fairs/italy.html

[15:10] AmandaT Tamatzui: only established veterans seem toget to go

[15:10] AmandaT Tamatzui: :)

[15:10] AmandaT Tamatzui: type in biennial

[15:10] AmandaT Tamatzui: not sure how to spell it

[15:10] Mathilde Vhargon: When I was setting up a new flat and had very little money, I checked ebay for possible art pieces to decorate.

[15:10] AmandaT Tamatzui: I wish my laptop work as good as yours Brain

[15:11] BrainCrave OHare: :) amanda

[15:11] AmandaT Tamatzui: if I am on Sl I can hardly go anywhere else

[15:11] AmandaT Tamatzui: :)

[15:11] Mathilde Vhargon: I found some artists selling there.

[15:11] Clarisse Bernheim: mmm abotu the Bienal, will you go??

[15:11] AmandaT Tamatzui: ebay?

[15:11] AmandaT Tamatzui: Clarisse..

[15:11] AmandaT Tamatzui: yes

[15:11] AmandaT Tamatzui: I got news form ymCanadian artist firend

[15:11] AmandaT Tamatzui: part of my xing,com network

[15:11] Clarisse Bernheim: ohh that's great!!

[15:11] AmandaT Tamatzui: Mona Yousseff

[15:11] BrainCrave OHare: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florence_Biennale

[15:11] AmandaT Tamatzui: I was invited to join SL to be an art curator

[15:11] AmandaT Tamatzui: in fact

[15:12] AmandaT Tamatzui: she is a well known artists too

[15:12] AmandaT Tamatzui: and I was going to rope in MOna as well

[15:12] AmandaT Tamatzui: But the costs to be part of second Interest was at least USD$ 5000 for an exhibition\

[15:12] AmandaT Tamatzui: so I bailed out

[15:12] AmandaT Tamatzui: lol

[15:12] BrainCrave OHare: what kinds of opportunities does being an art curator on SL give you to sell your art amanda?

[15:12] AmandaT Tamatzui: well

[15:12] AmandaT Tamatzui: when you help others

[15:12] AmandaT Tamatzui: you get exposure too maybe

[15:12] AmandaT Tamatzui: credibility?

[15:12] AmandaT Tamatzui: part of networking

[15:13] AmandaT Tamatzui: Like I volunterred \

[15:13] AmandaT Tamatzui: for James wallace Art trust

[15:13] AmandaT Tamatzui: in NZ

[15:13] AmandaT Tamatzui: well knowns trust

[15:13] AmandaT Tamatzui: good for resume

[15:13] AmandaT Tamatzui: google it

[15:13] AmandaT Tamatzui: we do have international art events iN ZN

[15:13] AmandaT Tamatzui: :)

[15:13] Mathilde Vhargon: I would guess that it helps to get to know people and let them see you are a person of integrity and that you are serious about art, doing your best work, learning, etc.

[15:13] AmandaT Tamatzui: I will org it is people can afford to come

[15:13] AmandaT Tamatzui: :)

[15:13] AmandaT Tamatzui: yes

[15:13] Mathilde Vhargon: I feel that is my strongest quality, as an amateur only doing art in SL

[15:13] AmandaT Tamatzui: and soem peoplel will invest in your art if they know

[15:14] AmandaT Tamatzui: youintend to take it places

[15:14] BrainCrave OHare: Mona Youssef: http://www.mona-gallery.com/

[15:14] AmandaT Tamatzui: Thanks Brain

[15:14] AmandaT Tamatzui: you are excellent

[15:14] AmandaT Tamatzui: I am impressed

[15:14] AmandaT Tamatzui: you see'other non art specialist

[15:14] AmandaT Tamatzui: sites brings you to meet art related people

[15:14] AmandaT Tamatzui: withn those sites

[15:14] AmandaT Tamatzui: lol

[15:14] AmandaT Tamatzui: there are art groups

[15:14] Mathilde Vhargon: I should add, re: Two Shores Gallery, that we are listed in Search. Sorry i don't have a slurl to post here.

[15:15] BrainCrave OHare: Wallace Arts Trust: http://www.wallaceartstrust.org.nz/

[15:15] AmandaT Tamatzui: to those of oyu with links

[15:15] AmandaT Tamatzui: Thanks

[15:15] AmandaT Tamatzui: kisses

[15:15] Mathilde Vhargon: Or you can find me on Facebook under my name. I have link there

[15:15] AmandaT Tamatzui: His trust will be buying a land near my h osue

[15:15] AmandaT Tamatzui: whoppeee

[15:15] AmandaT Tamatzui: but hey

[15:15] BrainCrave OHare: what an art curator does: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curator

[15:15] Mathilde Vhargon: This is going to be good to check out all these links.

[15:15] AmandaT Tamatzui: I am hopingmy hosue will go up in pripce.. Iiwll sell it off and be a hermit artist once again!

[15:15] AmandaT Tamatzui: hosting braincrav exhibitions1

[15:15] AmandaT Tamatzui: hahahahaha

[15:16] AmandaT Tamatzui: and

[15:16] AmandaT Tamatzui: I sold art via facebook!

[15:16] AmandaT Tamatzui: So

[15:16] AmandaT Tamatzui: get yourself active there if you can

[15:16] AmandaT Tamatzui: I don;t do facebook mush

[15:16] AmandaT Tamatzui: sicne Sl

[15:16] AmandaT Tamatzui: caused a stirr

[15:16] BrainCrave OHare: Two Shores Gallery: http://slurl.com/secondlife/Comfortably%20Numb/75/154/22

[15:16] Mathilde Vhargon: There are a lot of SL avatars listed in Facebook, also

[15:16] Mathilde Vhargon: a whole community of SL facebook people

[15:16] AmandaT Tamatzui: hmm my sentences are not coming out in proper order

[15:17] BrainCrave OHare: how do you sell art via facebook???

[15:17] AmandaT Tamatzui: well

[15:17] Mathilde Vhargon: So you can advertise and put out notices to people on your friends list there.

[15:17] Carter Cobalt: I ther ,in face book

[15:17] AmandaT Tamatzui: One guy form Austria

[15:17] AmandaT Tamatzui: living iN Indonesia

[15:17] Mathilde Vhargon: and post slurls on your page.

[15:17] AmandaT Tamatzui: was aprt of my ving.com group

[15:17] AmandaT Tamatzui: I used tp post in there and crack the people up

[15:17] AmandaT Tamatzui: They loved me as I was a joker

[15:17] AmandaT Tamatzui: didn;t try to sell art at all

[15:17] Carter Cobalt: Im there in facebook*

[15:17] AmandaT Tamatzui: but he knew me

[15:17] AmandaT Tamatzui: trusted in me

[15:18] AmandaT Tamatzui: and asked me if i sold my art

[15:18] AmandaT Tamatzui: I said

[15:18] AmandaT Tamatzui: are you kididng?

[15:18] AmandaT Tamatzui: I do

[15:18] AmandaT Tamatzui: so he took a look

[15:18] AmandaT Tamatzui: fell in love with my art and trusted me

[15:18] AmandaT Tamatzui: and paid me good money fo r it

[15:18] AmandaT Tamatzui: :)

[15:18] AmandaT Tamatzui: we need to be approachable people

[15:18] AmandaT Tamatzui: gone are the days

[15:18] Mathilde Vhargon: That's a great story, Amanda, and I'm not surprised, based on what I've seen in FB so far

[15:18] BrainCrave OHare: it's clearly important for people to have trust in you to help sell your art. that's another interesting aspect that is, of course, similar in business

[15:18] AmandaT Tamatzui: trying to be snotty

[15:18] AmandaT Tamatzui: yes

[15:19] AmandaT Tamatzui: and lay people

[15:19] AmandaT Tamatzui: are scared of galleries

[15:19] Mathilde Vhargon: I've only been in FB a few months and already have over a hundred SL friends there, many of whom are art lovers

[15:19] AmandaT Tamatzui: becasue of snotty people

[15:19] AmandaT Tamatzui: lol

[15:19] AmandaT Tamatzui: good one math!

[15:19] AmandaT Tamatzui: :)))

[15:19] Mathilde Vhargon: Being friendly to people on your friends list makes sense

[15:19] BrainCrave OHare: mathilde, sounds like we all need to friend you in facebook :)

[15:19] AmandaT Tamatzui: I think so

[15:19] AmandaT Tamatzui: :)

[15:19] Mathilde Vhargon: hahahah

[15:20] Mathilde Vhargon: Well, you know you get a list each week of your friends' birthdays, etc.

[15:20] Clarisse Bernheim: lol

[15:20] Mathilde Vhargon: and people will invite you to their clubs, groups, etc.

[15:20] AmandaT Tamatzui: I wonder if there are more concenrs

[15:20] AmandaT Tamatzui: we still have not addressed yet?

[15:20] Mathilde Vhargon: so it is very easy to network there

[15:20] Mathilde Vhargon: and just be genuinely interested in connecting and letting people know you like them.

[15:21] BrainCrave OHare: i use http://www.linkedin.com/ for busines - i wonder if they have an artist community? i imagine they do - i join all sorts of business groups in linkedin.com, but i'd suggest artists checking it out as well and searching for art groups to join in it

[15:21] AmandaT Tamatzui: I will have to re read this to get what everyone has been saying

[15:22] AmandaT Tamatzui: I tend to type looking down form the screen and would have missed lots

[15:22] AmandaT Tamatzui: yes I am aprt of linked in too

[15:22] AmandaT Tamatzui: but that needs payment

[15:22] AmandaT Tamatzui: So ryze and xing free

[15:22] Mathilde Vhargon: Yes, I look forward to getting the chat log of this meeting

[15:22] AmandaT Tamatzui: and easier to connect

[15:22] AmandaT Tamatzui: but then you may get better people at Linked?

[15:22] Carter Cobalt: Thats it for me,for now.

[15:23] AmandaT Tamatzui: Carter

[15:23] AmandaT Tamatzui: we can talk later

[15:23] Carter Cobalt: its a lot to absorb

[15:23] BrainCrave OHare: i will post the chat log as soon as we're done here - it will take me about 20 minutes or so. just check the article at http://www.braincrave.com/viewblog.php?id=34 and you'll see the link

[15:23] Clarisse Bernheim: oh great idea Brain

[15:23] AmandaT Tamatzui: I hope

[15:23] AmandaT Tamatzui: I want to knwo your ideas and hopes

[15:23] BrainCrave OHare: bye carter

[15:23] AmandaT Tamatzui: :)

[15:23] AmandaT Tamatzui: Thansk Brain

[15:23] Carter Cobalt: yes bye

[15:23] Mathilde Vhargon: Thanks

[15:23] AmandaT Tamatzui: ciao

[15:23] Carter Cobalt: thank you Brain

[15:23] Carter Cobalt: thanks to all

[15:23] Mathilde Vhargon: Really nice to meet you all

[15:23] Mathilde Vhargon: Goodbye

[15:23] AmandaT Tamatzui: see you...

[15:23] BrainCrave OHare: bye math

[15:24] Carter Cobalt: you also, bye

[15:24] BrainCrave OHare: so, to give amanda a short break until tonight, why don't we end it for now here and continue again at 7 PM SLT?

[15:24] BrainCrave OHare: amanda, thanx so much for offering all the wonderful advice

[15:24] AmandaT Tamatzui: thanks.. sorry I am quite sick iN Rl

[15:24] AmandaT Tamatzui: so may be a bit slow

[15:24] AmandaT Tamatzui: :P

[15:24] BrainCrave OHare: this has been so amazing - i hope everyone else will reach out to you personally to thank you

[15:24] Mathilde Vhargon: I will be asleep then, but look forward to seeing that chatlog posted. : )

[15:24] AmandaT Tamatzui: it was a pleasure

[15:24] BrainCrave OHare: so sorry to hear amanda - hope you get well soon

[15:25] AmandaT Tamatzui: tahnsk Brain

[15:25] AmandaT Tamatzui: :)

[15:25] AmandaT Tamatzui: sleep well Math

[15:25] AmandaT Tamatzui: lol

[15:25] Mathilde Vhargon: Yes, do take care of yourself, Amanda, and thanks so muchy

[15:25] Mathilde Vhargon: : )

[15:25] AmandaT Tamatzui: youa re welcome

[15:25] Clarisse Bernheim: thanks

[15:25] AmandaT Tamatzui: :)

[15:25] Mathilde Vhargon: I've taken an LM here so I can return

[15:26] BrainCrave OHare: again, please don't forget to check out amanda's amazing art here at the gallary

[15:28] Clarisse Bernheim: For me pricing the art is one of the most difficutl things, why doing that per hours wouldn’t worth? What would be the best form then, when you are starting?

[15:28] AmandaT Tamatzui: for example...

[15:28] AmandaT Tamatzui: say you used up 40 hours doing your paitning...

[15:28] AmandaT Tamatzui: if you charged even a low rate of $ 10 per hour....

[15:29] AmandaT Tamatzui: that will make it worth how much?

[15:29] AmandaT Tamatzui: 400?

[15:29] AmandaT Tamatzui: usually our art takes more.

[15:29] AmandaT Tamatzui: sorry

[15:29] AmandaT Tamatzui: I meant to say 400 hours

[15:29] AmandaT Tamatzui: lol

[15:29] AmandaT Tamatzui: so 4000

[15:29] AmandaT Tamatzui: for an emerging artst

[15:29] Clarisse Bernheim: mmmm

[15:29] AmandaT Tamatzui: we cna;t charge that

[15:29] Clarisse Bernheim: but it would depend on eachpiece, no?

[15:29] AmandaT Tamatzui: even though we think it is worth that

[15:30] AmandaT Tamatzui: so.. if w find otu simialr art gets sold at $ 1200

[15:30] AmandaT Tamatzui: that will have to be the price we well it at

[15:30] AmandaT Tamatzui: and later

[15:30] AmandaT Tamatzui: 2 -3 years time'it gets higher and higher

[15:30] Clarisse Bernheim: I usually send protratis for 200 e aprox, or some painting for 1000 if it's big. but how can I have an standart to start to value my work?

[15:30] AmandaT Tamatzui: sometiems even within a fe wmonths

[15:30] AmandaT Tamatzui: depeodngn on what happens

[15:30] AmandaT Tamatzui: I wont pay for osmeone to value art yet

[15:30] AmandaT Tamatzui: unless you can truly afford to

[15:31] AmandaT Tamatzui: are we talking USD?

[15:31] Clarisse Bernheim: so, you mean that with more time happens, more expensive will be the painting???

[15:31] AmandaT Tamatzui: yes

[15:31] Clarisse Bernheim: ohh

[15:31] AmandaT Tamatzui: and Ileanrnt not to udnercyt galleries where I am exhibiting

[15:31] AmandaT Tamatzui: I tried to sell on a site like ebay once

[15:31] AmandaT Tamatzui: and my gallery perosn saw it and told me

[15:32] Clarisse Bernheim: I understand..... but this is in the case that a person is know, has a name, no?

[15:32] AmandaT Tamatzui: since the peice of art I was sellign was simialr to what was in her gallery

[15:32] Clarisse Bernheim: worked?

[15:32] AmandaT Tamatzui: she said i cna;t sell it as I am of different caliber now

[15:32] AmandaT Tamatzui: lol

[15:32] Clarisse Bernheim: mmm

[15:32] AmandaT Tamatzui: so I stopped sellign simialr art on ebay like places

[15:32] Clarisse Bernheim: what do you mean with USD?

[15:33] AmandaT Tamatzui: American dollars

[15:33] BrainCrave OHare: USD = US Dollars

[15:33] Clarisse Bernheim: ahh ok. no, I sell in Euros

[15:33] AmandaT Tamatzui: wow

[15:33] AmandaT Tamatzui: not bad for an emerging artist!

[15:33] AmandaT Tamatzui: :)

[15:33] Clarisse Bernheim: is too much?

[15:33] AmandaT Tamatzui: so 1000 euros?

[15:34] Clarisse Bernheim: i really have no got idea about standars of prices

[15:34] AmandaT Tamatzui: I know of soem emerging artsits selling prices of a few hundred dolalrs...

[15:34] Clarisse Bernheim: but this would be a painting of 100 x 81 cm, elebored

[15:34] Clarisse Bernheim: not a protrait

[15:34] AmandaT Tamatzui: even if later their work look to be wortth much ore

[15:34] AmandaT Tamatzui: Yes...

[15:34] AmandaT Tamatzui: I woudl say the rpice is worth is

[15:34] AmandaT Tamatzui: but the buyer's viewoint?

[15:35] AmandaT Tamatzui: hard to judge...

[15:35] DigitalJack Blackhawk: general rule is something is worth what the buyer was willing to pay :)

[15:35] AmandaT Tamatzui: Have you had people wanting to buy but they could not afford?

[15:35] AmandaT Tamatzui: maybe you can sell it to that person (if you trust)

[15:35] AmandaT Tamatzui: with a down payment of say 50%

[15:35] Clarisse Bernheim: yes Amanda

[15:35] AmandaT Tamatzui: and they pay on installment

[15:35] AmandaT Tamatzui: and the risk is

[15:35] Clarisse Bernheim: is really difficult to find people able to pay for the art

[15:35] AmandaT Tamatzui: even if they do nto pay you the rest fully

[15:36] AmandaT Tamatzui: that 50% would have been okay

[15:36] AmandaT Tamatzui: Yes

[15:36] AmandaT Tamatzui: so you need to make a decision

[15:36] AmandaT Tamatzui: stick witht he price

[15:36] AmandaT Tamatzui: or sel it for lower

[15:36] Clarisse Bernheim: I have found people interested, but not able to pay for the work, and it's really difficult to find.

[15:36] AmandaT Tamatzui: so it helps oyu promote yourself

[15:36] AmandaT Tamatzui: I have given work away

[15:36] AmandaT Tamatzui: for charities...

[15:36] AmandaT Tamatzui: the more you do the more your name gets out there

[15:37] AmandaT Tamatzui: one of my art were asked to be part of Project Hope

[15:37] AmandaT Tamatzui: which is a huge brand new place for families with people sufferign form cancer

[15:37] AmandaT Tamatzui: it was aired oN TV

[15:37] AmandaT Tamatzui: I missed it myself

[15:37] AmandaT Tamatzui: but all part of my resume

[15:37] AmandaT Tamatzui: YOu may need to do the same

[15:38] AmandaT Tamatzui: and see if you can place a suitable art in a professional person's offfice

[15:38] AmandaT Tamatzui: with foot traffic

[15:38] AmandaT Tamatzui: or important people

[15:38] AmandaT Tamatzui: going through

[15:38] AmandaT Tamatzui: hotels

[15:38] AmandaT Tamatzui: etc

[15:38] Carter Cobalt: hi there

[15:38] AmandaT Tamatzui: BUt your art must be appropriate

[15:38] AmandaT Tamatzui: Hi carter

[15:38] Clarisse Bernheim: mmm understand

[15:38] Carter Cobalt: sorry to be so quiet back there

[15:39] AmandaT Tamatzui: you don;t want gory bloody art in say a lawyer's office

[15:39] AmandaT Tamatzui: :)

[15:39] AmandaT Tamatzui: it;s fine cobalt

[15:39] AmandaT Tamatzui: :P

[15:39] AmandaT Tamatzui: carter sorry

[15:39] AmandaT Tamatzui: :P

[15:39] Carter Cobalt: im just new ,and feeling my way in the dark

[15:39] AmandaT Tamatzui: just love the coloour cobalt, I guess

[15:39] Clarisse Bernheim: I udnerstand that at the beginning your prices must be lower to be able to be known easier, no? is that what you mean?

[15:39] Carter Cobalt: but i see light

[15:39] AmandaT Tamatzui: 'rememebr to send me pics of your art if you have them

[15:39] AmandaT Tamatzui: :)

[15:39] Clarisse Bernheim: ohhh

[15:39] AmandaT Tamatzui: yes clarisse

[15:39] AmandaT Tamatzui: You see light?

[15:39] Clarisse Bernheim: this is a great idea about the office

[15:40] AmandaT Tamatzui: Yes because at least you will know people

[15:40] AmandaT Tamatzui: who own offices

[15:40] AmandaT Tamatzui: offer to replace art for them free

[15:40] AmandaT Tamatzui: :)

[15:40] AmandaT Tamatzui: MY art is currently at bacilounge.com

[15:40] Carter Cobalt: I see therr is a fine place for me in SL art ,somewhere

[15:40] AmandaT Tamatzui: a bookstore cafe that raise funds fo literacy prgram.,

[15:40] AmandaT Tamatzui: met the man thorugh networking

[15:40] AmandaT Tamatzui: yes cobalt

[15:40] Clarisse Bernheim: si, I tried to go to hostels too

[15:41] AmandaT Tamatzui: there would be

[15:41] AmandaT Tamatzui: :)

[15:41] AmandaT Tamatzui: and get int ouch with MOna

[15:41] AmandaT Tamatzui: she is in your country

[15:41] AmandaT Tamatzui: Canada

[15:41] Clarisse Bernheim: bacilounge.com is a place to sell the art?

[15:41] AmandaT Tamatzui: yes

[15:41] AmandaT Tamatzui: they are sellign my art now

[15:41] AmandaT Tamatzui: :)

[15:41] Clarisse Bernheim: woooow

[15:41] AmandaT Tamatzui: and I have been asked to illustrate for one of his books

[15:41] AmandaT Tamatzui: the owner

[15:41] Carter Cobalt: yes I wii thanks

[15:42] AmandaT Tamatzui: 'is a novelisht and a doctor and was nominated New zealander of the year

[15:42] AmandaT Tamatzui: I Love people...

[15:42] AmandaT Tamatzui: and want to use my talents to help.

[15:42] AmandaT Tamatzui: :P

[15:42] AmandaT Tamatzui: I think us artists can do much

[15:42] AmandaT Tamatzui: instead

[15:42] Clarisse Bernheim: sounds so good

[15:43] AmandaT Tamatzui: when we are established we can help bring awareness to social issues and raise funds to help others

[15:43] AmandaT Tamatzui: that is why I am knwon as Creative Nut on a Mission

[15:43] AmandaT Tamatzui: lol

[15:43] AmandaT Tamatzui: otherwise i would b happy painting for myself

[15:43] AmandaT Tamatzui: :)

[15:44] AmandaT Tamatzui: Learn abt your potential customrsvisualize

[15:44] AmandaT Tamatzui: how they are like

[15:44] AmandaT Tamatzui: what they do

[15:44] AmandaT Tamatzui: when they wake

[15:44] AmandaT Tamatzui: yp

[15:44] AmandaT Tamatzui: what they wouold like to see on their walls\etc

[15:45] Clarisse Bernheim: mmm yes I understand

[15:46] AmandaT Tamatzui: :)

[15:46] Clarisse Bernheim: indeed if would be a great functionallity of he art

[15:46] AmandaT Tamatzui: you there/

[15:47] AmandaT Tamatzui: Cobalt...

[15:47] Clarisse Bernheim: Indeed it would be a good function of the art, that acts like chain to another possibilitiesat the same time. so good....

[15:48] Clarisse Bernheim: what do you mean with abt?

[15:48] Clarisse Bernheim: what does abt mean?

[15:48] Clarisse Bernheim: what do you mean with abt?

[15:49] AmandaT Tamatzui: abt is about

[15:49] Carter Cobalt: hey thats an abriviation

[15:50] Clarisse Bernheim: oh thanks

[15:50] Carter Cobalt: sorry,didnt want it to sound disrespectful

[15:50] Clarisse Bernheim: thank you very much for bringing your help and experience Amanda

[15:50] AmandaT Tamatzui: about

[15:51] AmandaT Tamatzui: You are fine Carte

[15:51] AmandaT Tamatzui: r

[15:51] AmandaT Tamatzui: oh Thank you for having me

[15:51] AmandaT Tamatzui: :P

[15:51] AmandaT Tamatzui: I only know a little bit

[15:51] Carter Cobalt: I dont know how helpful I was

[15:51] AmandaT Tamatzui: but a little bit to someone who does not know that bit is good enough

[15:51] Carter Cobalt: but I did enjoy the company

[15:51] AmandaT Tamatzui: I appreciate you being here

[15:51] AmandaT Tamatzui: :)

[15:51] Clarisse Bernheim: (eaten by lag) thanks you very much for bring us your help and experience Amanda

[15:52] AmandaT Tamatzui: and look forward to your art

[15:52] Carter Cobalt: very correct ! on soooooo many levels.

[15:52] DigitalJack Blackhawk: Having lived in NY one thing I have learned about the art community is there is an element of faux knowledge, Photographer Nat Tate is a perfect example, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nat_Tate

[15:52] Orchid Somerset: Amanda, I don't have anything to contribute, since I'm not an artist, but your work is beautiful

[15:52] DigitalJack Blackhawk: sorry I've been lurking today way too much multitasking

[15:52] Carter Cobalt: I need to do a lot of work to prepare

[15:53] AmandaT Tamatzui: Hi Orchid and Didital!

[15:53] DigitalJack Blackhawk: hiya

[15:53] AmandaT Tamatzui: lol

[15:54] DigitalJack Blackhawk: I need to go back and read the last several hours of chat LOL

[15:54] DigitalJack Blackhawk: caught bits n' pieces here only

[15:54] Clarisse Bernheim: mmm interesting jack

[15:54] AmandaT Tamatzui: HAHAHAHAHA

[15:54] Tak Kovacs: Yes...the hours of backlog DO get in the way of understanding

[15:54] AmandaT Tamatzui: hey Tak!!!

[15:54] Clarisse Bernheim: interesting jack

[15:54] AmandaT Tamatzui: Kisses

[15:54] Tak Kovacs: Amanda!!!

[15:54] Tak Kovacs: WHY ARE WE SHOUTING?

[15:54] AmandaT Tamatzui: HAHAHAHAHA

[15:54] Orchid Somerset: yes, jack, that's a great article

[15:55] AmandaT Tamatzui: fancy meeting you here :)

[15:55] AmandaT Tamatzui: Thansk for the article link jack

[15:55] Carter Cobalt: i havent read it yet

[15:55] AmandaT Tamatzui: I will read it later

[15:55] Tak Kovacs: I endure BrainCrave's topics on a fairly regular basis...

[15:55] DigitalJack Blackhawk: I have helped some artist friends in the past get some attention using the Nat Tate method, in this case I would play Nat Tate kinda

[15:55] BrainCrave OHare: :P at tak

[15:55] Tak Kovacs: ^^

[15:56] Clarisse Bernheim: lol

[15:56] Carter Cobalt: Amanda ,Ill Im you when your not so busy,Ive so many questions the mind reels.

[15:56] AmandaT Tamatzui: ok

[15:56] AmandaT Tamatzui: :)

[15:56] DigitalJack Blackhawk: wouldn't work as well today with the web's pervasiveness into everything but I know a few that are using the "nat tate method" via social networking

[15:56] Carter Cobalt: thanks

[15:57] Orchid Somerset: Jack; I think it's less about "lying" about an artist's credibility- anything to get a name out and people to check an artist out works, in my opinion

[15:58] Orchid Somerset: no press is bad press?

[15:58] AmandaT Tamatzui: What is Nate Tate?

[15:58] AmandaT Tamatzui: :P

[15:58] DigitalJack Blackhawk: no no there was no lying about the artist

Written by permalink    plaintext

The following discussion occurred on Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 7:00 PM/19:00 SLT (PST) in Second Life at Library Art Gallery @ Info Islan, Info Island (17, 27, 34) (http://slurl.com/secondlife/Info%20Island/35/43/34). It is based on the article titled Starving Artists - Making Money from your Creativity. The Braincrave.com group on Second Life is free to join (http://world.secondlife.com/group/bcd74901-06b3-4760-07b3-18e07c160888). Please excuse the typos - it's a very common occurrence in Second Life.

[18:58] BrainCrave OHare: In support of artists everywhere, and gathered from speaking to a few experienced artists, we will discuss suggestions for financially benefiting from your creativity.

FTA: "There are different forms of intelligence. Creativity and artistic abilities are excellent indicators of intelligence. But earning a living as an artist is difficult, especially given today’s economic issues worldwide (art is oftentimes considered a luxury item). It is also difficult for artists to get their work displayed in galleries and, if it is bought, the gallery takes a substantial portion of the purchase price."

Starving Artists - Making Money from your Creativity: http://www.braincrave.com/viewblog.php?id=34


[18:58] Jilly Zanzibar: Yesh.

[18:58] Leigh Gears: it will if i force it

[18:58] Leigh Gears: :P

[18:58] AmandaT Tamatzui: testing

[18:59] BrainCrave OHare: and, as always, lag is bad - please be patient with posts and use CTRL-up arrow if your posts are eaten

[18:59] BrainCrave OHare: a very special thank you to AmandaT Tamatzui for her help writing this article, facilitating this discussion, and providing such a lovely location for us to see her RL work while we chat. also a thank you goes out to fiona Bearsfoot who also contributed some of her experiences to this article.

[18:59] BrainCrave OHare: if you'd like to join us, we are currently meeting at http://slurl.com/secondlife/Info%20Island/17/28/34 (though the discussion will be held in group chat - not local)

[18:59] AmandaT Tamatzui: my pleasure Brain.. for this opprtunity

[19:00] Randi Grigorovich: I will be there soon

[19:00] BrainCrave OHare: so, for all you artists out there, what did you think of the article?

[19:00] Randi Grigorovich: is it a mature or pg sim:)

[19:00] BrainCrave OHare: mature randi

[19:00] Randi Grigorovich: okies:)

[19:00] Randi Grigorovich: will be there after work:)

[19:01] AmandaT Tamatzui: :)|

[19:01] AmandaT Tamatzui: sounds.. Randy

[19:01] AmandaT Tamatzui: :P

[19:01] BrainCrave OHare: who among you are artists in either SL or RL?

[19:01] Galia Beck: Amanda has a one-track mind

[19:01] Randi Grigorovich: I dance in sl at various clubs

[19:01] Leigh Gears: both for me

[19:01] Randi Grigorovich: :)

[19:01] Bisa Lupindo: I can draw a mean stick figure

[19:01] AmandaT Tamatzui: Both for me

[19:01] Tak Kovacs: you NOTICED her track?

[19:02] Tak Kovacs: how surprising

[19:02] AmandaT Tamatzui: Bisa. good

[19:02] Galia Beck: I'm an art lover and SL gallery manager

[19:02] AmandaT Tamatzui: Tak....

[19:02] AmandaT Tamatzui: :P

[19:02] Tak Kovacs: *whistling innocently*

[19:02] Bisa Lupindo: You know it's hard for me to track scarcasm online Amanda :P

[19:02] BrainCrave OHare: galia, from an SL gallery perspective, do you find that generally you're able to pay the rent based on art sold?

[19:03] Leigh Gears: oh gosh never

[19:03] Galia Beck: I don't own a gallery, I manage this one on a voluntary basis

[19:03] Galia Beck: ... and we sell no art from here

[19:03] Galia Beck: This is a non-profit sim

[19:04] BrainCrave OHare: so, basically you just do it for the fun of it?

[19:04] Galia Beck: Yes, and because i want to give back to the community

[19:04] BrainCrave OHare: has anyone here (besides amanda of course) ever sold art in sl?

[19:05] Leigh Gears: yes

[19:05] BrainCrave OHare: have you found it profitable leigh?

[19:05] Leigh Gears: before I owned a full sim , yes

[19:05] Galia Beck: A full sim is very expensive to own

[19:05] BrainCrave OHare: ah, interesting. so not making enough to cover a full SIM... how do you sell it?

[19:06] AmandaT Tamatzui: Is your sim used for Art exhibition too or a personal sim?

[19:06] Leigh Gears: I have the standard search adds up, networked billboard and a huge gay following lol

[19:06] AmandaT Tamatzui: ah the Pink Dollar

[19:06] Leigh Gears: its used to show other rl and sl artists too

[19:06] Leigh Gears: and has other business on it

[19:06] Tak Kovacs: The Gay Mafia is EVERYWHERE!

[19:07] AmandaT Tamatzui: awesome Leigh

[19:07] AmandaT Tamatzui: *giggles8

[19:07] Leigh Gears: lol

[19:07] BrainCrave OHare: leigh, do you get commissions from the RL sales as well?

[19:07] Tak Kovacs: Is the full sim purchased from LL or tiered from a rental house?

[19:08] Leigh Gears: i use to show in rl galleries, but gallery owners are bad on taking commisions, so i pulled out

[19:08] Randi Grigorovich: hi all:)

[19:08] AmandaT Tamatzui: So now you sell your art based on SL?

[19:08] BrainCrave OHare: hi randi

[19:08] AmandaT Tamatzui: Hi Randi!

[19:08] Galia Beck: Hi Randi

[19:08] BrainCrave OHare: what do you mean bad leigh - they take too much?

[19:08] Galia Beck: and Bisa

[19:08] Leigh Gears: i pay 107 aust dollars aweek to an estate for the sim

[19:08] AmandaT Tamatzui: Hi Bisa!

[19:08] AmandaT Tamatzui: :)

[19:08] Bisa Lupindo: Thank you, hellow everyone :)

[19:08] Bisa Lupindo: *hello

[19:09] Leigh Gears: 40% of sale price

[19:09] BrainCrave OHare: ok, so that's consistent with what amanda told me and what i put in the article

[19:09] Leigh Gears: is too high a comission for my tastes

[19:09] BrainCrave OHare: so you don't show in RL galleries at all anymore because of how much they take?

[19:09] Leigh Gears: tho i was selling but still too high

[19:09] AmandaT Tamatzui: So that is the asking rate iN Adelaide then?

[19:09] Leigh Gears: true

[19:10] Galia Beck: I used to manage a gallery for a photographer friend and he gave me 40% commission even tho I didn't ask for it so that must be fairly standard

[19:10] Leigh Gears: yes it was in N Adelaide lol

[19:10] AmandaT Tamatzui: I guess some of us would rather loose the 40% as long as we can sell.. BUT

[19:10] AmandaT Tamatzui: if you can do it without them good on ya!

[19:10] BrainCrave OHare: so leigh, how do you sell your RL art then?

[19:10] Leigh Gears: I have a website I sell from now

[19:10] Randi Grigorovich: I do in rl specialised announcements poetry written on demand

[19:10] Randi Grigorovich: i make some money that way

[19:10] BrainCrave OHare: one that you created, or did you use one of those art services?

[19:10] Leigh Gears: so i sell world wide not just local

[19:11] BrainCrave OHare: randi, how do you sell it? how do you advertise?

[19:11] Galia Beck: May I have your url please leigh

[19:11] AmandaT Tamatzui: Great work leigh!

[19:11] Tak Kovacs: OK...slow conversion ;) You're getting about break even vs. purchasing directly from LL on the monthly land cost

[19:11] Randi Grigorovich: word of mouth

[19:11] Leigh Gears: yes its all my rl work i sell

[19:11] Randi Grigorovich: people like what i do and contact me

[19:11] Manasi Goldshark: i think art sells best during art fests

[19:11] Leigh Gears: and rl is bought in here to sell

[19:11] Randi Grigorovich: i am thinking of getting a web site

[19:11] BrainCrave OHare: and leigh, when you sell your art, are you selling the originals, or copies, or both?

[19:11] Leigh Gears: sl is just like a #D website

[19:12] AmandaT Tamatzui: indeed

[19:12] Manasi Goldshark: thats when the maximum people come and have a look and prolly also buy

[19:12] AmandaT Tamatzui: awesome place to show art SL\

[19:12] Leigh Gears: only original, i dont and wont mass produce

[19:12] Randi Grigorovich: I sell My poetry in sl also

[19:12] BrainCrave OHare: so randi, basically people like what the see and spread the word then?

[19:12] AmandaT Tamatzui: You shold get a web site Randi

[19:12] AmandaT Tamatzui: :)

[19:12] Randi Grigorovich: it is just a fun thing

[19:12] BrainCrave OHare: have you ever sold at an art fest manasi?

[19:13] Randi Grigorovich: would not know how to put one together

[19:13] BrainCrave OHare: randi, in the article, there are a few links to places that will help you setup the website for free

[19:13] Randi Grigorovich: but will research it

[19:13] AmandaT Tamatzui: took me a year to do it myself. :P

[19:13] Manasi Goldshark: actually no..i havent sold art at all

[19:13] Galia Beck: We have regular live performing artists her and that brings in people who see the art and hopefully contact the artist, even though they can't buy directly here

[19:13] Randi Grigorovich: ok thank you brain

[19:13] Manasi Goldshark: but it is my guess..that theywill sell better then

[19:13] BrainCrave OHare: and why do you choose not to mass-produce leigh?

[19:13] Tak Kovacs: there are a number of places that will let you "paint by numbers" (;pun intended) to create a website

[19:13] AmandaT Tamatzui: :)

[19:14] Leigh Gears: to me it cheapens art, all art works come as a single thought and is created a singal peace

[19:14] BrainCrave OHare: ah, ok galia - so they come to the gallery, like what they see, and then go to your website to purchase?

[19:14] Manasi Goldshark: art is generally considered elitist

[19:14] Galia Beck: They go to the artist's website

[19:15] Manasi Goldshark: most people will be put off by the dea of buying art or even get intimidated at the idea of going to buy it

[19:15] Galia Beck: Amanda has her contact details in every picture here

[19:15] Randi Grigorovich: i think i will do a web site

[19:15] Galia Beck: ... and they can also IM her directly of course

[19:15] Leigh Gears: I have a web link in my sl gallery if they wish to buy the rl work

[19:15] Randi Grigorovich: sounds fun i also do wood cuts who knows i may sell them as well

[19:15] BrainCrave OHare: perhaps leigh. i have a few friends who are still going to school for art and having a hard time making any money off the art. so they were interested in hearing about how to make the maximum amount of money from their art. i thought one way might be to put it on t-shirts, greeting cards, etc. and some of these websites in the article

[19:16] Manasi Goldshark: leigh..i have a question..how do you qualify to be an art curator?

[19:16] Leigh Gears: my rl partner does that with his photo stuff and he does well out of it

[19:16] BrainCrave OHare: so that's a good point galia - if you're selling art in SL, you should always include a notecard to your website or other contact information

[19:17] BrainCrave OHare: leigh, feel free to post the URL of your website here so that others can take a look

[19:17] Leigh Gears: Darn Manasi, I dont think of my self as a curator, I am just an artist, so I dont know hun

[19:17] Manasi Goldshark: galia is right..we al need a rl website and contact info..even on your profile

[19:17] Galia Beck: Even a well designed blog can serve as a website

[19:17] AmandaT Tamatzui: And rememebr to network!

[19:17] BrainCrave OHare: for those of you who don't know what a curator is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curator

[19:17] AmandaT Tamatzui: Havign a web site helps

[19:18] AmandaT Tamatzui: :)

[19:18] Manasi Goldshark: i would like to try my hand at art...but more in doing the job of a curator...and wondered how one qualifies to do that?

[19:18] AmandaT Tamatzui: Manasi...

[19:18] Galia Beck: In RL or SL?

[19:18] Manasi Goldshark: yes manada?

[19:18] Leigh Gears: darn reading the wiki says I am lol

[19:18] Manasi Goldshark: yes amanda?

[19:18] AmandaT Tamatzui: we al have a different gift.. and some curators may not create art but they make darn great curators!

[19:18] Manasi Goldshark: exactly my point amanda

[19:18] BrainCrave OHare: yes amanda, that was one of the key things that i learned from you. networking is critical if you're going to sell art. it's not enough to be a great artist - you really have to network so that people know you, learn to trust you, and get familiar with your art and capabilities

[19:19] Manasi Goldshark: oh yes

[19:19] Manasi Goldshark: have a wine and cheese event..that seems to be the de rigeur for art showings

[19:19] Manasi Goldshark: lol

[19:19] Tak Kovacs: gee...networking. Seems most ANY sales of IP requires that *chuckle*

[19:19] AmandaT Tamatzui: hahaha

[19:20] Leigh Gears: this is my site and she is being upgraded atm, but most of it is there >>>> http://www.twistingart.com/index.htm

[19:20] AmandaT Tamatzui: thank you leigh!

[19:20] BrainCrave OHare: and tak, that's a good point. effectively, it's not enough just to learn art. to be successful, you really have to learn business to (e.g., networking, marketing)

[19:20] AmandaT Tamatzui: would love to check it out

[19:20] Leigh Gears: me slow sorry

[19:20] AmandaT Tamatzui: and we need to appreciate people those who help in web designs

[19:20] BrainCrave OHare: amanda, would you also post your site as well so people can view your art?

[19:20] AmandaT Tamatzui: marketing etc

[19:20] Manasi Goldshark: yup..los ofairkissing....

[19:20] AmandaT Tamatzui: sure

[19:20] AmandaT Tamatzui: ty

[19:20] AmandaT Tamatzui: www.amandatomasoa.com

[19:21] Manasi Goldshark: "ullo daaahling...looong time not seen you?"

[19:21] Galia Beck: Don't be backward at coming forward

[19:21] Tak Kovacs: are yuou sure "air" is the right three-letter prefix you were seeking?

[19:21] AmandaT Tamatzui: lol

[19:21] AmandaT Tamatzui: I can;t stand pretentiousness

[19:21] AmandaT Tamatzui: my weakness

[19:21] AmandaT Tamatzui: so I tend to hide form such events

[19:21] AmandaT Tamatzui: from

[19:21] BrainCrave OHare: leigh and galia, how do you advertise in SL?

[19:21] Galia Beck: rave parties are much more fun

[19:21] AmandaT Tamatzui: But we artists must all learn to be able to handle such events

[19:21] AmandaT Tamatzui: like a pro

[19:22] Leigh Gears: networks, word of mouth, events at the gallery

[19:22] BrainCrave OHare: you have a rave for art??

[19:22] Randi Grigorovich: folks i am weary sweet dreams:) i must go:)

[19:22] BrainCrave OHare: bye randi

[19:22] Manasi Goldshark: amanda...your work is fantastic

[19:22] Randi Grigorovich: good night all:)

[19:22] Galia Beck: I advertise throught the Library groups that own these sims and also on the events pages

[19:22] Manasi Goldshark: bye rndi

[19:22] Leigh Gears: ni ni Randi

[19:22] AmandaT Tamatzui: see you Randi and thanks for coming

[19:23] Manasi Goldshark: sorry for the typos..but today am beset by big time lag

[19:24] BrainCrave OHare: how do you advertise in the events pages?

[19:24] Randi Grigorovich: thank you for having me :)

[19:24] Manasi Goldshark: bye randi

[19:24] Galia Beck: Why not rave for art?

[19:25] AmandaT Tamatzui: aww thanks Manasi

[19:25] Randi Grigorovich: Bye:)

[19:25] Tak Kovacs: SL did just recently send out a survey regarding revised marketing avenues in-world (produced by LL and paid for by the marketer, of course)

[19:25] Galia Beck: Why not rave for art?( in case it didn't get thro las time)

[19:26] BrainCrave OHare: and lag strikes its mighty sword upon us!

[19:26] Manasi Goldshark: its been a pleasure speakig wth you today randi

[19:26] Leigh Gears: it;s ok Manasi, I am still waking up, typo's are good for the brain i say :P

[19:26] Galia Beck: In SL search you can advertise events

[19:26] BrainCrave OHare: eaten by lag: so leigh, you don't do any advertising like in magazines or through search?

[19:27] Manasi Goldshark: yw amanda..i only wish i could afford some of your art pieces

[19:27] BrainCrave OHare: and lag strikes its mighty sword upon us!

[19:27] AmandaT Tamatzui: Does anyone think it would have been the good way to go about promoting art iN SL?

[19:27] Leigh Gears: wow that was ages ago i said that

[19:27] AmandaT Tamatzui: second Interest AG wanted to charge me USD$ 5000 for a solo art exhibition where they will also market it tot he whole commuity

[19:27] Tak Kovacs: I think though...that a viral approach would be particularly effective in SL...

[19:27] AmandaT Tamatzui: Maybe you can Manasi. WHo knows?

[19:27] Tak Kovacs: I think though...that a viral approach would be particularly effective in SL...

[19:27] BrainCrave OHare: do you have a link to the survey tak?

[19:27] BrainCrave OHare: for those who are able, please feel free to join us at the gallery which is showing amanda's art: http://slurl.com/secondlife/Info%20Island/18/24/34

[19:28] Manasi Goldshark: am also very sleepy today morning leigh

[19:28] AmandaT Tamatzui: :P

[19:28] Bisa Lupindo: I have to get going but thank you for the invite to your gallery Amanda, I hope you travel some more to get more inspiration!

[19:28] Leigh Gears: not yet i dont, have been looking at otherways of advertising

[19:28] Manasi Goldshark: lol...it messes up my brains

[19:28] BrainCrave OHare: what's second interest AH amanda?

[19:28] AmandaT Tamatzui: send me an IM

[19:29] Tak Kovacs: one moment...I'll post it.

[19:29] BrainCrave OHare: http://www.secondinterest.com/en/company.html "SECOND INTEREST AG Virtual Business Solutions is your premium virtual worlds agency. We deliver content design, business development and technical solutions across a variety of platforms, helping you to understand, assess and integrate the current change towards a 3D Internet within your online strategy. Using the powers of virtual worlds, we create for you the best business possible in an avatar-driven, multi-user-oriented web. "

[19:29] Manasi Goldshark: lol amanda..my husband gave me a budget of only no more than $200 SGD

[19:29] BrainCrave OHare: what other ways are you considering leigh?

[19:30] AmandaT Tamatzui: it is the company that created the Dresden gallery here iN SL

[19:30] AmandaT Tamatzui: singapore dollars?

[19:30] Tak Kovacs: http://secondlife.qualtrics.com/WRQualtricsSurveyEngine?Q_SS=b7QOhVlCKWEzzqQ_6xqyevqv8HxV7lq&_=1

[19:31] Tak Kovacs: It's quite possible that link is targeted to me though.

[19:31] DigitalJack Blackhawk: it is and it just thanked me for taking the survey

[19:32] AmandaT Tamatzui: lol

[19:32] Tak Kovacs: but of course ^^

[19:33] BrainCrave OHare: looks like that goes to a page that says "Thank you for taking the survey. Your response has been recorded." tak

[19:33] Tak Kovacs: Yes BrainCrave, it has recorded that the ID associated with the link has already completed the survey

[19:33] BrainCrave OHare: what is so special about the dresden gallery in SL amanda?

[19:34] BrainCrave OHare: tak gets to have all the fun

[19:34] AmandaT Tamatzui: :)

[19:34] AmandaT Tamatzui: Oh

[19:35] AmandaT Tamatzui: So would any of oyu have been willing to Pay USD$ 5000 for second Interest to help you out?

[19:35] AmandaT Tamatzui: the dresden is replica of the R thing in RL

[19:35] BrainCrave OHare: uhm... not a chance amanda? lol

[19:35] Tak Kovacs: on to fun....dinner in a box is now beeping...BBIAB

[19:35] Galia Beck: There is an alternative to having your pics on display at a big gallery and paying exorbitant fees

[19:35] Leigh Gears: hello?

[19:35] Tak Kovacs: I'll see if I can recall or find the list of questions

[19:35] BrainCrave OHare: WB leigh

[19:35] Leigh Gears: yippy lol

[19:36] Galia Beck: Rent your own small gallery, network like mad and build up your business from there

[19:36] Manasi Goldshark: lol

[19:36] Tak Kovacs: Amanda--> NO! ;)

[19:36] AmandaT Tamatzui: I know

[19:36] AmandaT Tamatzui: so I did not do the wrg thing by turning them down?

[19:36] AmandaT Tamatzui: :)

[19:36] BrainCrave OHare: this is for dresden gallery: http://slurl.com/secondlife/Dresden%20Gallery/120/128/26

[19:36] AmandaT Tamatzui: Just checking

[19:36] AmandaT Tamatzui: heh heh

[19:36] BrainCrave OHare: with all the same art amanda?

[19:36] BrainCrave OHare: cya tak

[19:36] AmandaT Tamatzui: they have Rl tours on SL

[19:36] AmandaT Tamatzui: for students

[19:36] AmandaT Tamatzui: and professioonal tri[s

[19:37] AmandaT Tamatzui: PArdon Brain?

[19:37] AmandaT Tamatzui: dresden paid them USD $ 200,000 a year

[19:37] BrainCrave OHare: so what alternatives would you suggest galia

[19:37] AmandaT Tamatzui: to kep the eun of the place here iN SL

[19:37] AmandaT Tamatzui: accoridng to the web people I knew

[19:37] Galia Beck: Rent your own small gallery, network like mad and build up your business from there

[19:37] Manasi Goldshark: braincrave...we have a new freind interested in being a member

[19:38] Galia Beck: Start off in one of the sims devoted to art galleries

[19:38] BrainCrave OHare: so what kind of tips do you suggest or networking galia? how does one learn to network?

[19:38] AmandaT Tamatzui: yes do what galia suggests

[19:38] AmandaT Tamatzui: :)

[19:38] BrainCrave OHare: manasi, just let me know the name and i'll send an invite

[19:38] Galia Beck: Such as Avalon

[19:38] Manasi Goldshark: Gem Footman

[19:39] Galia Beck: Networking means talking to everyone you meet

[19:39] AmandaT Tamatzui: I think I iwll be wanitng that spoace there galia

[19:39] AmandaT Tamatzui: :P

[19:39] Galia Beck: Showing your interests and the location of your gallery in your profile

[19:40] Galia Beck: I've never yet meant anyone who doesn't want to chat with an interesting profile

[19:40] AmandaT Tamatzui: yes!

[19:40] Manasi Goldshark: right galia

[19:40] AmandaT Tamatzui: And being friendly genuine helps

[19:40] AmandaT Tamatzui: Galia and I met at a dance place

[19:40] AmandaT Tamatzui: :P

[19:40] Galia Beck: Particularly if you are an artist - people are usually interested

[19:40] Leigh Gears: I dont use chats offen, i am a voice person

[19:40] BrainCrave OHare: galia, i get lots of hits for avalon - is it avalon art district you're referring to?

[19:40] Bacon Hellershanks: Try a Linden. They're usually too busy to chat.

[19:41] Galia Beck: Yes Brain

[19:41] AmandaT Tamatzui: lol

[19:41] Leigh Gears: tame Lindens are ok,if u can catch one

[19:41] BrainCrave OHare: well galia, according to search, they have a traffic number of 8

[19:41] BrainCrave OHare: this is for avalon: http://slurl.com/secondlife/Tabula%20rasa/224/74/2

[19:41] Manasi Goldshark: folks..am going out for a bit now.be back later and rejoin discussion

[19:41] BrainCrave OHare: cya manasi

[19:41] Bacon Hellershanks: At first I thought this was brainCAVE.

[19:41] Galia Beck: That is strange, I often meet people there

[19:41] AmandaT Tamatzui: see you Manasi

[19:41] Leigh Gears: see ya soon hun

[19:41] AmandaT Tamatzui: :)

[19:42] Gem Footman: Hello room. I just got an invitation

[19:42] BrainCrave OHare: so galia, i think one of the things you're suggesting then is to make sure your SL profile is interesting?

[19:42] AmandaT Tamatzui: HellO gem!

[19:42] BrainCrave OHare: so that people have something to chat with you about?

[19:42] elle Pinelli: maybe about 8 people Galia? :)

[19:42] Leigh Gears: I have no idea what my traffic is at my place

[19:42] BrainCrave OHare: welcome gem

[19:42] Galia Beck: If you want people to ask questions, yes

[19:42] Gem Footman: I understand the topic is art in SL?

[19:42] AmandaT Tamatzui: yes

[19:42] AmandaT Tamatzui: gem

[19:42] Galia Beck: ... and making money Gem

[19:43] AmandaT Tamatzui: Are you an artist?

[19:43] Gem Footman: good. No..I wish I was :)

[19:43] AmandaT Tamatzui: look at cafepress.com

[19:43] Gem Footman: however I have a very close friend who is

[19:43] AmandaT Tamatzui: you can put your art on mugs, tshirts too

[19:43] Gem Footman: so I'm familiar with the problems and process

[19:43] BrainCrave OHare: that's a great idea galia. actually, on the braincrave.com website (which is a rl dating website), one of the things i help people do is improve their dating profiles. the purpose obviously is to make it more enticing for someone to contact you. seems like it makes sense to do that in SL as well

[19:43] AmandaT Tamatzui: if you want to go that way Like red bubble

[19:43] Galia Beck: I'm sure it does Brain

[19:44] Leigh Gears: I have an account with red bubble, but i havent used it in years

[19:44] BrainCrave OHare: cafepress.com is aother good one amanda for putting your art on items like clothing, etc.

[19:44] Leigh Gears: I stopped cos I dont sell prints

[19:44] AmandaT Tamatzui: Oh yes it does. And may filter the people if you ahve a good profile..

[19:44] Galia Beck: As long as you make sure that you are advertising your art and not your other assets :)

[19:44] AmandaT Tamatzui: Yes Brain I just said that. snap

[19:44] AmandaT Tamatzui: :p

[19:45] Leigh Gears: lol

[19:45] AmandaT Tamatzui: lol G

[19:45] AmandaT Tamatzui: :)

[19:45] BrainCrave OHare: ok, so an good point - if you want to network, you've got to upgrade your SL profiles

[19:45] BrainCrave OHare: :P @ amanda

[19:45] AmandaT Tamatzui: trick to

[19:45] AmandaT Tamatzui: is to have an attractive avie

[19:45] AmandaT Tamatzui: people are still moved by visual..

[19:45] BrainCrave OHare: you mean clothing/skin-wise amanda?

[19:45] AmandaT Tamatzui: that draws them to look at you and read your profile hus may bring you art loevrs

[19:45] AmandaT Tamatzui: :P

[19:45] Gem Footman: that depends on if you're using yourself as a billboard

[19:45] Galia Beck: That helps too

[19:45] AmandaT Tamatzui: yes1

[19:45] AmandaT Tamatzui: Sl is an opportunity for us to shine

[19:46] AmandaT Tamatzui: if you go around looking like a newbie

[19:46] AmandaT Tamatzui: chances are dim

[19:46] Gem Footman: LOL well. that's true

[19:46] AmandaT Tamatzui: the art lovers will contact you

[19:46] AmandaT Tamatzui: I just met a Parisian interested in taking my art to Paris]

[19:46] AmandaT Tamatzui: it started with him being attracted to my avie

[19:46] AmandaT Tamatzui: then my ptofile

[19:46] AmandaT Tamatzui: and voila!

[19:46] Leigh Gears: also if where u have ur art out is not a good looking build they dont buy either

[19:46] AmandaT Tamatzui: we are connected1

[19:47] BrainCrave OHare: to your point about a billboard gem, one of the things that has been a great success in getting out the word about braincrave.com's SL group is the "intelligence is hot" tag. women who wear it seem to get asked to dance a lot (which i would have never expected). so, if you can create your own group and come up with a good tag to wear, that might help start conversations as well

[19:47] Galia Beck: Many ppl have tried to make their avis look like their RL selves coz they don't want to give a false impression but have found that they are shunned by most sl residents

[19:47] AmandaT Tamatzui: yes.

[19:47] AmandaT Tamatzui: heh hehe

[19:47] BrainCrave OHare: that's a great example amanda

[19:47] Gem Footman: Interesting, BrainCrave. And yes, i'd fall for the "intelligence is hot" tag

[19:47] AmandaT Tamatzui: personally I am not a surface person.

[19:47] AmandaT Tamatzui: I love people no matter how they look...

[19:48] Leigh Gears: me too

[19:48] AmandaT Tamatzui: but let's be honest

[19:48] Galia Beck: I must try wearing it to social functions :)

[19:48] AmandaT Tamatzui: most people choose form the look

[19:48] AmandaT Tamatzui: :)

[19:48] AmandaT Tamatzui: cna;t avoid it

[19:48] AmandaT Tamatzui: So why not show off our creat8ve takent

[19:48] Leigh Gears: and if u turned up to my place in rl, u would find what u can see here but with long hair

[19:48] Leigh Gears: lol

[19:48] AmandaT Tamatzui: by making our avi an art?

[19:48] AmandaT Tamatzui: heh hehe

[19:48] AmandaT Tamatzui: :)

[19:48] BrainCrave OHare: who else here is a RL or SL artist that has had experiences selling their art?

[19:49] Galia Beck: One of the nicest ppl I eve met hadn't rezzed when i started chatting and when she did I would not have spoken to her if I hadn't been chatting with her first

[19:50] Galia Beck: She looked like a low-class hooker, lol

[19:50] AmandaT Tamatzui: :)

[19:50] Leigh Gears: lol

[19:50] AmandaT Tamatzui: lol

[19:50] Gem Footman: slutwear seems to be popular

[19:50] BrainCrave OHare: similar to beefing up your profile, it probably also makes sense to read lots of profiles and try to strike up conversations with them based on what they write. that's a way to also build your network

[19:50] AmandaT Tamatzui: remember first impressions. So to sell art we need to think like business people too

[19:50] AmandaT Tamatzui: true Brain

[19:50] AmandaT Tamatzui: haha gem

[19:50] Galia Beck: ... and join groups other than shopping groups :)

[19:50] AmandaT Tamatzui: )

[19:50] Gem Footman: its like writing a resume. Many people can't do that in RL either.

[19:50] AmandaT Tamatzui: maybe to wrg crowd

[19:50] AmandaT Tamatzui: :P

[19:50] AmandaT Tamatzui: yes..

[19:50] AmandaT Tamatzui: :)

[19:51] DigitalJack Blackhawk: now the perfect wiseass reply to that is Galia knows the classes of hookers well :)

[19:51] BrainCrave OHare: for braincrave.com, i read thousands of profiles looking for indications of people who like to think

[19:51] AmandaT Tamatzui: visualize your potential clients..

[19:51] Leigh Gears: the biggest shock I got oneday in sl was when I had a 6500L sale of my work and then the next day a rl order visa the site

[19:51] Galia Beck: This IS SL Jack!

[19:51] Leigh Gears: same guy bought up in bothe worlds

[19:51] AmandaT Tamatzui: I know most o fmine are up and coming people.. who loves good lookign stuff.

[19:51] DigitalJack Blackhawk: I was making a joke Galia

[19:51] AmandaT Tamatzui: yeayy Leigh!

[19:51] BrainCrave OHare: that's awesome leigh

[19:52] Gem Footman: wow Leigh

[19:52] AmandaT Tamatzui: designer stuff and cheerful surorundings

[19:52] Galia Beck laughs

[19:52] Galia Beck: Fantastic Leigh

[19:52] AmandaT Tamatzui: Must check out your art Leigh

[19:52] Gem Footman: RL becons. back in a few min

[19:52] Leigh Gears: it was, cos i bought a new pc with half the money lol

[19:52] AmandaT Tamatzui: lol

[19:52] AmandaT Tamatzui: And to think I am still shy of sellign my art here iN SL for $1200l!

[19:53] AmandaT Tamatzui: I feel better already

[19:53] Leigh Gears: the sl has more showing than the site atm

[19:53] BrainCrave OHare: there's an art gallery called art meets you that has traffic of 13610: http://slurl.com/secondlife/Magnetik%20Island/110/138/22 - says it's a free place for artists

[19:53] AmandaT Tamatzui: wow

[19:54] Leigh Gears: they have events too i heard to pull in more traffic

[19:54] Galia Beck: BTW Jack, I used to live near Kings Cross in Sydney so I have seen my shar of RL hookers too, lol

[19:54] Leigh Gears: my place has 562 traffic

[19:54] BrainCrave OHare: but, interestingly enough, if you do a search in places for art gallery, not many high traffic SIMs come up for solely art

[19:54] DigitalJack Blackhawk: there was the long term project brooklyn is watching but they closed up a few months back

[19:55] DigitalJack Blackhawk: LOL Galia

[19:55] AmandaT Tamatzui: awesoem Leigh

[19:55] AmandaT Tamatzui: where are uou Leigh?

[19:55] BrainCrave OHare: so, what the traffic numbers say to me is that, even though art is so huge in SL, it's pretty disbursed and not many people traffic solely art sims

[19:55] Leigh Gears: tho not showing in art and culture, hmmm

[19:56] Leigh Gears: must look at the settings

[19:56] BrainCrave OHare: dresden gallery, which amanda said spent $200K on, only has traffic of 3755

[19:56] AmandaT Tamatzui: in a day?

[19:56] Leigh Gears: Its the downunder sim, twisting art gallery

[19:56] DigitalJack Blackhawk: well many galleries in SL have closed up in the last 4 years, poor sales & disreputable people involved with the galleries, one well known group was actually founded by someone who did it solely to steal textures of RL art

[19:56] AmandaT Tamatzui: or whole year?

[19:56] BrainCrave OHare: so, clearly, it's not the art alone that's going to bring you traffic, which is amanda's point that i make in the article

[19:56] AmandaT Tamatzui: Wo really

[19:56] AmandaT Tamatzui: grrrr

[19:57] BrainCrave OHare: i don't know how they get the traffic numbers amanda

[19:57] AmandaT Tamatzui: SO Leigh you are successful iN L.. tell us what you do

[19:57] AmandaT Tamatzui: :)

[19:57] AmandaT Tamatzui: by ebign friendly?

[19:57] AmandaT Tamatzui: ok Brain

[19:57] BrainCrave OHare: does anyone know how the traffic numbers are generated in search?

[19:57] DigitalJack Blackhawk: well now classifieds & traffic are seperate in SL, you can pay for your ad and get a high listing on classifieds, in places it is listed by traffic

[19:57] AmandaT Tamatzui: Thanks jack

[19:58] AmandaT Tamatzui: Maybe that was why they wanted to charge me USD $ 5,000

[19:58] AmandaT Tamatzui: :)

[19:58] Galia Beck: To pay for their advertising?

[19:58] Gem Footman: back

[19:58] BrainCrave OHare: but it's interesting, don't you think amanda, that someone pays $200K and gets almost no traffic... why would you make that kind of investment for that little return?

[19:58] DigitalJack Blackhawk: there are supposed SL "traffic gurus" that charge thru the nose I don't trust the lot of them honestly

[19:58] Leigh Gears: i am known in adelaids Amanda, so i guess so in a way

[19:59] AmandaT Tamatzui: And to create a store for me.. I am glad I met you.

[19:59] AmandaT Tamatzui: :P

[19:59] Leigh Gears: sorry phone lol

[19:59] AmandaT Tamatzui: ahhh .

[19:59] AmandaT Tamatzui: :)

[20:00] Gem Footman: what kind of art do you artists in this group do?

[20:00] AmandaT Tamatzui: TY Leigh

[20:00] Leigh Gears: I have a friend that is an artist, "Donald Roller" Wilson, he saw my site and asked how i did my work, he bought a peace and has it up in his studio

[20:00] BrainCrave OHare: so, what it sounds like is that, though it might be fun to create art in SL, it's difficult to make money in SL selling art. the real benefit would come in making RL connections, selling RL art as a result of showing SL art, and getting invited to shows based on your SL art

[20:01] AmandaT Tamatzui: According to Cai..

[20:01] AmandaT Tamatzui: curator of Criss Museum.. it is hard

[20:01] Galia Beck: I think that sums it up pretty well

[20:01] Leigh Gears: I am an abstract, horror and humor, all CGI tho most look like they r hand painted

[20:01] AmandaT Tamatzui: so best to compensate with sellign clothes or soemthing...

[20:02] Gem Footman: all of you artists...if you would send me a notcard with a LM to your art, I'd be glad to go see it. Are any of you members of the sl Art Ring?

[20:02] BrainCrave OHare: who else here is a RL or SL artist?

[20:02] DigitalJack Blackhawk: well just like RL art in SL has a history of being very cliquey(is that a word?) even joining in 2006 it was very difficult to break thru that faux barrier

[20:02] BrainCrave OHare: what's the SL art ring gem?

[20:02] AmandaT Tamatzui: Really Digital?

[20:02] Gem Footman: its like a ring on the net....You belong and someone clicks on the ring on your store and is taken to an other artist

[20:03] Gem Footman: its a way to connect and get additional traffic

[20:03] BrainCrave OHare: do you have a link gem?

[20:03] DigitalJack Blackhawk: recently it has gotten much better with the older avant guarde avatars leaving SL as a "statement" against this or that policy

[20:03] AmandaT Tamatzui: For Sl art, right?

[20:03] Gem Footman: yes, for SL

[20:03] AmandaT Tamatzui: heh hehe

[20:03] AmandaT Tamatzui: :)

[20:03] Gem Footman: my friend, Lena Anthony is a member. Contact her (give her my name if you want) and she can tell you more

[20:04] AmandaT Tamatzui: Thanks Gem

[20:04] AmandaT Tamatzui: :)

[20:04] DigitalJack Blackhawk: I consider myself an artist, regions are my canvas along with SL photography

[20:04] Gem Footman: yw

[20:04] BrainCrave OHare: found it through her profile it's called the Art Lovers Ring

[20:04] AmandaT Tamatzui: So you are a digital artist maybe?

[20:04] AmandaT Tamatzui: :)

[20:04] Gem Footman: that's it BrainCrave

[20:04] AmandaT Tamatzui: Oh I had this iidea

[20:04] BrainCrave OHare: from the group charter: "Dedicated to promoting cooperation and support among the community of gallery owners showing and selling original art.

We operate the Art Lovers Gift Ring and have events to promote our member galleries.

Membership by invitation to gallery owners who want to participate in our Ring and other events, please contact Carly or Xe for information."

[20:04] AmandaT Tamatzui: I forgot to post

[20:04] AmandaT Tamatzui: Form an art group...

[20:05] BrainCrave OHare: you mean an art group in sl amanda?

[20:05] AmandaT Tamatzui: and start buying an investment piece of art one a month between your gorup..

[20:05] AmandaT Tamatzui: and rotate the pieces

[20:05] AmandaT Tamatzui: no iN RL ...

[20:05] AmandaT Tamatzui: sorry an idea after this morn's talk

[20:05] AmandaT Tamatzui: sorry am sick iN RL so a bit fuzzy and slow. :P

[20:05] Gem Footman: :(

[20:05] Leigh Gears: because of the name of my rl gallery and sl gallery i have this up on the site >>>>>>> "No matter how TWISTED it might seem to others" ART is ART! And it might not be what you or I like but it's still art in the eyes of the creator and in the eyes of those who do enjoy it.

[20:06] BrainCrave OHare: interesting amanda - so you're buying it effectively as an investment to make money off of it in a later sale?

[20:06] AmandaT Tamatzui: and where you can;t afford to purchase an up and coming artist you can as a colelctive..

[20:06] AmandaT Tamatzui: yes

[20:06] AmandaT Tamatzui: so even you as an artist

[20:06] AmandaT Tamatzui: get togetehr some people who once'told you they loved your art

[20:06] AmandaT Tamatzui: maybe teach them more abt investment in art...

[20:06] AmandaT Tamatzui: and encourage them to group tog to invest in you or others

[20:06] BrainCrave OHare: that's an interesting idea amanda

[20:07] AmandaT Tamatzui: that will be a start to invetsing in art too

[20:07] AmandaT Tamatzui: alone

[20:07] AmandaT Tamatzui: we may not be able to afford

[20:07] AmandaT Tamatzui: toigetehr

[20:07] AmandaT Tamatzui: we can

[20:07] Galia Beck: Sound like a good idea but would work best within your local area

[20:07] BrainCrave OHare: so basically the art rotates to each group member's house?

[20:07] AmandaT Tamatzui: yes

[20:07] AmandaT Tamatzui: true

[20:07] AmandaT Tamatzui: more for thos

[20:07] Gem Footman: I'd like to see a list come out of this discussion of the artists in this group, as well as the links to their galleries. Its a start to support each other

[20:07] AmandaT Tamatzui: in eachplace to do so

[20:07] AmandaT Tamatzui: :)

[20:07] AmandaT Tamatzui: just an idea

[20:07] AmandaT Tamatzui: then share the art aorund

[20:07] Galia Beck: Because of the high cost of transporting art safely

[20:07] AmandaT Tamatzui: but document it carefully

[20:08] BrainCrave OHare: gem, this discussion will be posted on the braincrave.com site right after it's over - the earlier one already is posted and has links in it too

[20:08] AmandaT Tamatzui: Artists need to get more invovled in any which way

[20:08] Gem Footman: good. thank you

[20:08] AmandaT Tamatzui: so org art groups etc etc too

[20:08] AmandaT Tamatzui: Like a bbok club

[20:08] BrainCrave OHare: amanda, if you had an art group that jointly bought the art, wouldn't you have to setup a separate company that would actually own the art?

[20:08] Galia Beck: Discussions like this are very beneficial

[20:09] AmandaT Tamatzui: Maybe or a trust

[20:09] AmandaT Tamatzui: iN NZ we have trusts

[20:09] BrainCrave OHare: ah

[20:09] AmandaT Tamatzui: so no one really own the art

[20:09] AmandaT Tamatzui: yet can still benefit

[20:09] BrainCrave OHare: are there any current art students in the group?

[20:11] BrainCrave OHare: so any other thoughts or questions around art?

[20:11] Leigh Gears: :))

[20:11] Leigh Gears: oops

[20:12] BrainCrave OHare: alright. once again, my sincerest thanx to amanda for helping to write the article and facilitating the discussion, as well as to the rest of you who so actively participated. i will post the group chat log of this shortly on the article's website page

[20:12] AmandaT Tamatzui: Thanks everyone..

[20:12] AmandaT Tamatzui: :)

[20:13] Galia Beck: When you leave I'd be pleased if you would rate this gallery onthe sign outside

[20:13] BrainCrave OHare: i hope that you will all try to get to amanda's and leigh's galleries, as well as thank them personally for their insights

[20:13] AmandaT Tamatzui: Thank you everyone

[20:13] BrainCrave OHare: absolutely will do galia

[20:13] Leigh Gears: ty Amanda and BrainCrave

[20:13] Galia Beck: Thankyou

[20:13] Leigh Gears: and all others in here :))

[20:13] AmandaT Tamatzui: And Thank you galia for giving me my first SL exhibition!

[20:13] DigitalJack Blackhawk: well done Amanda

[20:13] AmandaT Tamatzui: You are my heroine

[20:13] Galia Beck: I could n't have done it without you Amanda :)

[20:14] AmandaT Tamatzui: You RL art is on the way. when I am well. :P

[20:14] Galia Beck kisses

[20:15] Galia Beck: We have a new artist exhibiting next week, a photographer named Sakura2 Kohime. I hope some of you will come to her opening rave

[20:15] Gem Footman: nice to meet you all, interesting discussion

[20:15] Galia Beck: No cheese and wine :)

[20:15] BrainCrave OHare: do you have a date galia?

[20:15] Galia Beck: Let me check

[20:16] Galia Beck: I think it's SL time Sunday 23 May at 7:00pm

[20:16] Galia Beck: no, 5:00pm

[20:16] BrainCrave OHare: at this same gallery where we are?

[20:16] AmandaT Tamatzui: Iw ished I knew you guys when I had my first opening! *wails*

[20:16] AmandaT Tamatzui: lol

[20:17] Galia Beck: Yes, upstairs

[20:17] BrainCrave OHare: for those of you who need it, this is the SLURL: http://slurl.com/secondlife/Magnetik%20Island/110/138/22

[20:17] Gem Footman: thanks

[20:17] Galia Beck: Please come and see Amanda's pics before she takes them down

[20:18] Leigh Gears: will be there soon for a look see

[20:18] AmandaT Tamatzui: I wished I rememebred to take pics at the openinhg.

[20:18] Leigh Gears: :))

[20:18] AmandaT Tamatzui: one learn form mistakes

[20:18] AmandaT Tamatzui: so if you guys ever have l openings TAKE photos!!!!

[20:18] Gem Footman: smiles

[20:18] DigitalJack Blackhawk: or video

[20:19] DigitalJack Blackhawk: machinima is often overlooked in SL

[20:33] Leigh Gears: Hi all agin, I have just exstended my Gallery and have space available for people to show their works, it's free, so drop by, have a look and if u like the area leave ur work up on the wall>>>>> http://slurl.com/secondlife/Downunder/77/174/22

[20:33] BrainCrave OHare: thanx leigh!

[20:33] BrainCrave OHare: do they do it by themselves or do they send it to you and you put it up?

[20:34] Leigh Gears: lol, ment to do that before and forgot, me so much an air head today lol

[20:34] Leigh Gears: thye can join group and just put it up

[20:34] BrainCrave OHare: k - great

[20:34] Leigh Gears: its a matire sim, so keep nudity to a minimum please

[20:34] Leigh Gears: thats all i ask

[20:34] Leigh Gears: oh no its not

[20:35] Leigh Gears: fair use of space, dont fill all the walls lol

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We all admire beauty, but the mind ultimately must be stimulated for maximum arousal. Longevity in relationships cannot occur without a meeting of the minds. And that is what Braincrave is: a dating venue where minds meet. Learn about the thoughts of your potential match on deeper topics... topics that spawn your own insights around what you think, the choices you make, and the actions you take.

We are a community of men and women who seek beauty and stimulation through our minds. We find ideas, education, and self-improvement sexy. We think intelligence is hot. But Braincrave is more than brains and I.Q. alone. We are curious. We have common sense. We value and offer wisdom. We experiment. We have great imaginations. We devour literacy. We are intellectually honest. We support and encourage each other to be better.

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Sep, 2017 update: Although Braincrave resulted in two confirmed marriages, the venture didn't meet financial targets. Rather than updating our outdated code base, we've removed all previous dating profiles and retained the articles that continue to generate interest. Moving to valME.io's platform supports dating profiles (which you are welcome to post) but won't allow typical date-matching functionality (e.g., location proximity, attribute similarity).

The Braincrave.com discussion group on Second Life was a twice-daily intellectual group discussions typically held at 12:00 PM SLT (PST) and 7:00 PM SLT. The discussions took place in Second Life group chat but are no longer formally scheduled or managed. The daily articles were used to encourage the discussions.

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